Hard to start cold - '88 Exciter 570

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rkhanso

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Dec 28, 2010
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Age
59
Location
MN
It has fresh gas in it. I ran it for about 5 minutes a week ago. It started after about 10 pulls. It ran great.

I know little about 2-cycle engines and am having a problem with my '88 Exciter 570. It just doesn't want to start this year. Last year, it started really easy, even didn't need much choke to get it started. This year it's a different story.

I did have it running once this year and it ran really good once warmed up. I have pulled on that thing 30 times and it won't start. I've tried the choke in the 3 different positions.

Should I take out the spark plugs and try some mixed gas in the cylinders first? Something else?

I don't have a compression tester, but it is hard to pull over....It does not feel any different than it was the last 2 years when it started easy and ran good also.
 
I checked the plugs after trying to start it. They are really wet. I can shake drops of fuel out of them. Even with the choke off it does it. It's getting way too much fuel.

After drying them off and reinstalling - just pulling 2-3 times they're soaked again.

Is this still something fixed by only cleaning carbs? The one time I got it running this year it was running good.

I've really never been very good at working on carbs in the past. Any idea what a repair shop would charge to adjust them? Or, is there something simple to try?
 
Do a search and I'm sure some where there is a decent video or walk through of the carbs. They really aren't that involved. The engine may also be flooded and you have to pull the plugs out and just pull it over a bunch of times. If you can change the oil in your car you can clean the carbs on the sled. It is intimidating but once you get into it you will be fine. All adjustments are from lightly seated so just turn the screws in, count them in half turns and write it down. Do one at a time.
 
take off the air box and carbs , you dont have to disassemble them...shoot some carb cleaner in every hole you see. un plug fuel line and spray carb cleaner into the fuel inlet of your carbs,...reinstall and spray a couple shots of starting fluid in the air box fire her up...if still having issues ,,, im afraid carrb clean-out is necessary ...hey i love cleaning carbs now.. a lot of little pieces but once you get it down you can have carbs off cleaned then running again in less than an hour.
 
I got it running, though not perfect yet.

I found a post somewhere else where a guy had similar hard starting problems and really wet plugs after drying them off and just a couple pulls on the rope gets them full of fuel again. His engine was full of fuel.

I found what appeared to be a fuel shut off? There is a lever on the left side that was really hard to lift up. I didn't want to break it. I found on the right side (see picture) something that I think is a fuel shut-off. I removed the top cover of it and Like him, I took the plugs out and pulled the rope a bunch of times (50 or more) and then put the plugs back in.

Here's a picture of what I'm talking about - the thing under the eyeball:
IMG_20121218_233406.jpg


I put the plugs back in and it fired a little bit. I kept removing the plugs and drying them off and then trying to start it again. It kept getting a little better each time. Finally, I was able to keep it running. Once it ran pretty steady, a lot of fuel came out the exhaust. Finally the fuel stopped. I threw down some floor dry and checked later and found that it finally did stop coming out the exhaust.

The engine kept running for a couple minutes with that cap/plunger out of the thing I'm calling the fuel shut-off. Finally the engine died. I tried to start it again but it would not. I put the plunger and cap back on and it started up again.

So, I'm going to use the fuel shut-off when not riding in hopes this won't happen again. Now I need to figure out how to adjust the carbs.

Is there something else I need to pay attention to related to this fuel flooded engine problem?
 
I found carb adjusting instructions in a manual. I wanted to go through the steps. It says to adjust the pilot screw to 5/8 turn out. How in the world am I supposed to get at them? Is there a special tool? Is the only way to take the carbs off, adjust and put carbs back on?
 
OK. I took the carbs off and cleaned them out. There was no green crud in it (I cleaned them last year), but the pilot jet was pretty plugged up. I cleaned the main and pilot jets, blew out the passages with brake cleaner and then with air. Adjusted the screws to all the way in, then 5/8 turn out. Put it back together and it started up OK. After it warmed up, I adjusted the idle speed to what I 'guessed' was even at 1500 rpm. It ran really good (that thing has some power!), but there was a LOT more blue smoke than I ever remember with it. It was definitely very blue, and at all RPM ranges. Could I have messed up something with the oil injection?

I'll have to go through the rest of the adjustment instructions.

Also, I again had a recurring problem that I've been having the past 3 years, since I bought it. After running it for a while, then letting it idle for about 3-5 minutes, it has no power. I can't get the RPMs up enough to move. I removed the spark plugs when it was running, and the trouble is on the magneto side. I can remove the plug wire and it keeps running (badly). If I remove the PTO side, it dies. Is this still a carburetion problem? Or, is there some seal that could be bad? I'm not very knowledgeable about snowmobiles. The problem is, I'm also cheap and don't want to pay someone else to fix it.
 
dsc577 said:
did you take the needle and seats out? take em apart and clean in there to?
Click to expand...
Yes. they seem to work OK, too. I blew air into the fuel inlet and raised the arm that the float lifts - and it blocked the air I was blowing in. When I cleaned the carbs a couple years ago, I did this as well and also had the same problem after the engine idles for a couple minutes or more.
 
I'll double-check the choke cables and make sure there is slack in them with the choke off.
Wondering about the big increase in blue smoke. Could that just be the oil injection cable to tight - as in not in the correct position? I'll check that later today as well.
 
sounds like it is time for new needle and seats get a set of 1.5 viton tip ones will be the last ones you ever put in it the stock genuine set up aluminum needle will where out in as little as a year with these sleds plus it will cause all storts of other goofy starting and running issues
 
Check the pilot jet on the mag side, sounds like it's too rich, causing it to foul out. Yould should be running a 40 pilot. If you removed the plug wire on the mag side and it kept running badly, it means that side fouled out the plug. You might also have a blown mag crank seal. Removing the magneto and stator is the only way to see if it's blown without a leak-down test kit.

And do as Yamaha Nutz says and get new needles and seats. I had to do all this to get my sled running good. 40 pilots, new crank seals, and new needle valves.
 
ya first loose the oil injection! mix your gas.. i run 20:1 rich as hell ..kinda boggs when u start it and when u rev it it fires clean and will run just fine. protected too....
 
You may have pulled the oil pump cable housing out of the socket and it is hung up there. simply grab the housing and pull a little and then see if it will go all the way back into the socket.
 
I know on my 89 (need new needle and seat)if I forget to turn the fuel petcock on the dash off, God help you. It will flood badly.
 
wow yes theo125 you are my savior... i was about to hijack this thread and seen your post. i couldnt start my sled for the life of tomarrow. it would fire and die... just happened when i left it sitting two days. i never shut my petcock off and i went to pull my twin psi pipes off to get to the starter wire because i got wore out of pulling that rope. and walla i pulled out the pipe and a shitton of fluid comes out ...same with the other. it started first pull with the pipes off.YES ....I Rapped it out 7000 rpm without pipes..IDC... i went deaf for 30 min..lol no joke. but thanks this is all that has happend but did the packing get full of oil and get clogged? idk im swapping set of pipes and gonna try it!
 
I ordered 2 new sets of needle/seat from Port Yamaha and will hopefully get them this week. My kid has been riding it a little...the massive blue smoking seems to have stopped. I checked the oil cable and it 'seemed' OK. I'll report back after replacing the needle/seat in both carbs.
 
I finally put the new needles/seats in the carbs.

It ran pretty good. I took rode it around the yard for a little bit, let it idle for a couple minutes and it kept running OK, no bogging or flooding.

My son rode it later that day and said it started bogging down when riding at speed. I haven't ridden it since then, but will have to, to see what it's doing.

After putting in the new needles/seats, I adjusted the float level to so the fuel level wouldn't be so high. When adjusting - it was at the low end, around 17mm when adjusting it according to the manual, but I changed it to 18mm or so when measuring with a ruler.
 
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