What track combos work?

Backwoods M Max

Backwoods M Max

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Mar 31, 2011
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New England
Hi all mountain riders. I'm looking for feedback on what track combinations will work on my Mountain max and input on length. I've decided on 151" in length and would like feedback on people who have it, or reasons for another length. I am out east where we ride in tree glades and logging cuts, no steep open bowls like out west. Our snow also tends to be wet because of our proximity to the ocean. Even when we have "dry" snow, it tends to be kind of heavy, not the endless fluff like out west.

I'm trying to find a way to put a 2.31" challenger on the mountain max without dropping and rolling the chain case. I doubt that the extra .31" will clear. I measured the stock track to the heat exchanger and there isn't much extra room. I was going to order a 2.86 pitch 16" track and have trackusa cut it, but a 2.86 7 tooth driver isn't available.

So here's what I'm thinking, and the big thing I would like to know is what does it to do the effective gearing, and do I need an anti stab kit.

can I run 2.52 pitch, 7 tooth driver and run the 2.31" track. What is the effective gearing reduction?

Should I look into a 3" pitch 2.5" track on a 7 tooth driver?

Hartman says to run around 2/1 gearing on a 151" track, but I have reverse and would like to keep it. I don't know what gears are in the case and think limited options are available to change the ratio, so I would like to do it with the drivers if it helps with the clearance issue.
 
You can get a 159" track for half the price I know a guy who just put one on a MM I have been told that you dont need a anti stab kit on a 2000 and newer MM, also with what ever track you go with make sure it has every window open on it, even with that at 2" paddles it tough to keep the slides lubed on the hard packed trails I only got 600 miles on a set of slides and I only boondock but I got to jump on plowed roads and groomed trails a little bit to get the pow.
 
I have seen tracks USA has those 159" series 4 tracks for cheap. I just don't need to go that long. I ride with a guy who has a 146" gade with a 2.5" challenger and its more than enough for the tight tree glades here in the east.

Anybody have info on driver diameters for different pitches?
 
I found some great information on the whal bros website regarding their drivers. A 7 tooth 2.52 pitch is .75" smaller in diameter, giving a 12% reduction in gearing because of the smaller size. The radius is 3/8" smaller, so I can run a 2.31" skidoo challenger. I will have to get tracksusa to cut it down to 15" width before shipping, but it should go in with no issues other than that
 
I'll post up the info that I can.

Whal Bros is right. A 7 tooth 2.52" driver will give you more room by the front heat exchanger than a 7 tooth 3" driver. The reason is this

2.52" and 3" is the distance between each window or drive tooth. So you can find the circumference by taking (# of teeth) times (pitch). Divide by pi. Then divide by 2 to find the radius.

7 teeth and 2.52" pitch is 17.64" in circumference. Divide that by pi (3.14) and you get 5.6" which is the diameter so the distance the driver is out from the driveshaft is about 2.8" (radius).

7 teeth and 3" pitch is 21" in circumference. 6.69" is the diamater. So the radius is 3.34".

Therefore staying with a 7 tooth 2.52" vs. a 7 tooth 3" gives you about 0.54" of more room for track height.

With that said there is no need for 16" wide on a Mountain Max, and I wouldn't even put one on an Apex. I believe that 15" will come up on the side and boondock easier.

You loose room going to a 3" pitch vs 2.52" pitch for the reason mentioned above.

I believe a 151 or 153 is perfect length for a Mountain Max. As far as lug height, that depends on what pitch track you want. Anything longer and horsepower without pipes might start to play a role in track length ability.

You can figure out what will fit by finding out the radius of your current drivers and how much room you have between your front exchanger and current lugs. I'm not sure what drivers, height track, and room you have up front otherwise I could tell you what would and wouldn't fit.

Remeber a 3" pitch track will pick up more snow between each lug than a 2.52" track but you will loose room up front. It's a give and take really.

I've been out west and rode many different lengths, sleds, etc. A 97 SX 700 with a 136". A 01 Mtn Max with the stock 141". A 05 Viper Mtn stock at 144". A 05 Vector Mtn 151. A 05 Viper Mtn stock with 153". A 07 Apex Mtn 162". And my current sled a 08 Apex Mtn 174".

136 I would only ride out west in the spring. 141 and 144 out west is a little small but does work. You get into the 151 and 153 and they work great unless you want to climb high. A 162 and 174 depending on the track will put you up higher than you want sometimes.
 
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My main riding area is always going to be out here in the east, white and green mountains and northern Maine (some day). If I get out west I will make due with what I have and not worry so much about length. The reduction in diameter from 8 to 7 tooth is only 12%, and I can't find this out until we get in there but I have this sneaky feeling that I don't even have the stock ratio for a mountain max in there. I doubt that the reverse gear set was specifically made to retain the mountain max gear ratio. I don't even know what is available to change the ratio. I could change the top gear, but I think the bottom gear is what it is since it drives the reverse gear off the bottom. I would gladly take the reduction by the smaller driver and keep what's in the chain case.

I couldn't see buying a 2.31" track and then cut it down to 2" to make it fit. The older (2.52") tracks are getting stupid expensive any way you want to look at it. The radius between 8 and 7 teeth is 3/8" so it will give all the clearance without having to worry about anything, and pick up a little reduction for the longer track.

If anybody has a set, I'm on the look for viper spindles and steering arms and I've got fabcraft trailing arms on the horizon for a viper once I find the other parts.

There is an interesting article about 2.52" drivers providing the highest track speed for diameter and tooth count, but people are in this craze for light weight so it has pushed the 3" pitch. It happened for lightness not performance.
 
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151 in my opinion is one of the best enhancements you can do and stick with your stock drivers. personally i wouldnt even consider 7t 2.52 pitch drivers on a mtn sled, you loose performance. the mtn max will easily run a 155 in stock trim if you want to go that route, but as you have already researched, clearance will be an issue on anything over 2" lugs. you can easily cut the lugs if needed.

i ride exclusively in the mtns, and there is nothing wrong with any of the 151, 156, or 159 choices. more of the problem with the mtn maxes lies in the low front end. i would spend my money there after first ridding the sled of the pos yoko 141. even the camo 144 on your sled makes a night and day difference.

hartman always says 2:1, he needs to change that thought. anything over 2:1 is to your advantage and makes the sled more efficient. dont forget your already 11% lower with the stock 8T drivers.

if i were in your shoes, i would 151 it, use viper/venture tall spindle arms, lighten up the skid a bit and enjoy.
 
I'm assuming you meant never put a 7tooth 3" pitch on a mountain max? I did see that a 7 tooth 3" pitch is bigger in diameter than a 8 tooth 2.52" pitch, so that would lose torque and performance. I would gladly take a 12% increase in reduction ratio.
 
I'm already running 8tooth, and 2" is the tallest track that will fit a mountain max without a drop and roll of the chain case which I'm not looking into doing
 
snowdad4 said:
151 in my opinion is one of the best enhancements you can do and stick with your stock drivers. personally i wouldnt even consider 7t 2.52 pitch drivers on a mtn sled, you loose performance. the mtn max will easily run a 155 in stock trim if you want to go that route, but as you have already researched, clearance will be an issue on anything over 2" lugs. you can easily cut the lugs if needed.

i ride exclusively in the mtns, and there is nothing wrong with any of the 151, 156, or 159 choices. more of the problem with the mtn maxes lies in the low front end. i would spend my money there after first ridding the sled of the pos yoko 141. even the camo 144 on your sled makes a night and day difference.

hartman always says 2:1, he needs to change that thought. anything over 2:1 is to your advantage and makes the sled more efficient. dont forget your already 11% lower with the stock 8T drivers.

if i were in your shoes, i would 151 it, use viper/venture tall spindle arms, lighten up the skid a bit and enjoy.
Click to expand...

Hey Snowdad when you say use the viper/venture tall spindle arms, do you mean using the viper trailing arms and the viper spindles?
Thanks
Dave
 
thefindian said:
Hey Snowdad when you say use the viper/venture tall spindle arms, do you mean using the viper trailing arms and the viper spindles?
Thanks
Dave
Click to expand...
correct. maybe i should have specified trailing arms, i often take things for granted. dont forget the steering arms as well that fit the taller spindles, they are finer splined than the short spindles.

from there its selecting the proper tie rods, rad rods, and maybe even the steering link arm, but due to the already narrow stance on the mtn max, those parts should interchange. i include that list when narrowing up ski stances trying to match mtn max or mtn viper specs.
 
Well after some great feedback here and on snowest I found a 3 ride 151" challenger 2 from a parted out mountain max on eBay. The price was too good to pass up and shipping was free. The track still has the thin little pieces of rubber on it from the mold seams. I'm going to get a Hartman tunnel and tracksusa rail extensions. They seem the best design around. The lower tie in to the rails by the hyfax adds lots of strength in my book. The one thing I'm wondering about is do the rails need to be trimmed and an anti stab kit added? There appears to be plenty of room on the stock 8 tooth drivers but I figured I'd ask those that have been down this path before.
 
no need to trim the rails on that skid, if its in fact a 2000 or newer mtn max or mtn viper skid. i usually associate that task with adding anti-ratchets to short track sleds where the mount point on the front arm is closer to the driveshaft.

to each their own on the anti stab. i have ran several conversions with out ever having an issue. more associated with the 3" pitch tracks. i did consider one for the 155 2.86p but again, never had an issue.
 
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