SRX vs 800 Dragon...

Srx007

Srx007

Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2014
Messages
157
Location
Cambridge Ontario
Good Morning all. Looking for some opinions / advice..... Buddy of mine has been talking a little smak about his sled, IQ dragon 800 used, hasnt quite come straight out and said he could stomp my SRX but just the questions alone are enough, Claims he has a bunch of upgrades on it like stage 1 bikeman performance kit, but with out clutching?? has run 122 on the lake last year, claims approx 160-165hp, 96 studs, but never brought it to wear I live. If what he is saying is true, when we do race which Im pretty sure we will this season, will my stock SRX Mr.Viper 8dn20 54-46, 177 used studs, clutch set up be enough to pull this guy or should I go with a diff set-up from heelclicker with there Drag n Fly weights?? Has anyone ever set up an SRX with Drag n Fly weights? Did a few searches but have com up with nothing really.
 
Srx007 said:
Good Morning all. Looking for some opinions / advice..... Buddy of mine has been talking a little smak about his sled, IQ dragon 800 used, hasnt quite come straight out and said he could stomp my SRX but just the questions alone are enough, Claims he has a bunch of upgrades on it like stage 1 bikeman performance kit, but with out clutching?? has run 122 on the lake last year, claims approx 160-165hp, 96 studs, but never brought it to wear I live. If what he is saying is true, when we do race which Im pretty sure we will this season, will my stock SRX Mr.Viper 8dn20 54-46, 177 used studs, clutch set up be enough to pull this guy or should I go with a diff set-up from heelclicker with there Drag n Fly weights?? Has anyone ever set up an SRX with Drag n Fly weights? Did a few searches but have com up with nothing really.
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I would run him.. I still think the SRX will take him.. they have really long legs. Make sure you have goo traction.. thats the key.
 
I wouldn't be scared to try it. He won't stomp you if your srx is dialed in. My srx with my cousin riding it ran a 800 skidoo (2010 I think) last year and had him by half sled length till the very end when the 800 barely pulled past. It was a pretty short run. Also was 55 degrees with 01 jetting and clutching wasn't dialed in yet. I think with colder temps and clutch dialed in he would have smoked the 800.
 
I am going to run him, that is for sure and at 165 it would be hard race, the lake isn't very big. The best I have gotten on that little lake is 118, ice, then hard on the brakes. Has anyone ever used the Drag n Fly weights? They look pretty knarly.... As for traction, I don't really hook up well on bare ice, If I roll out easy instead of just punching it straight to the bar there is a big diff, obviously, but I have confidence in the SRX I know she is no slouch.
 
I would work on your skid setup as well. Larger wheels ( less rolling resistance) and make sure you can get some grip when you take off. Even if he has the 165 HP if you get him from the line he has to catch you before you have to brake.
 
Oh yes, almost forgot about the skid, well right now it is out of the sled, well about 2 months now have been busy, for new bearings in all wheels, they are pretty much shot, I do have the Polaris idlers upfront and in middle minus the 3.5 wheel before them. I think I will loosen the limiter straps off some more and tighten up the front shock before the skid goes back in, picked up some adjustable transfer rods in the off season as well.
 
He will probably beat you off the line but once you get to 50 - 70 mph you should blow right by him that 3rd cyl is hard to beat and traction is key
 
Srx007 said:
And why exactly would I have 2 many studs, ya it would be a little heavier but I would like to hear your theory
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rotating weight...... The more studs you run the heavier the track is, the slower your speed will be if nothing else is changed. You also get less traction as it divides up pressure exerted to each stud. Think of your childhood and you went to the circus and seen the man lay down on the bed of nails. The reason he could do that is theres so many nails it divedes up the pressure and doesn't puncture his back. Same thing with snowmobile track studs, the more you have the less pressure each stud places on the ice,hardpack,etc.
I always fall back to the 1 pick per hp rule and it works very well. You only need about 144 studs if your wanting to go fast mph and still get good traction with a stock srx. Actual patterns also have an effect as to how good they bite in. The closer the stud is to the rails the more pressure is exerted onto it making it bite harder into the surface. Modded sleds with more hp require more then 1 pick per hp but that's another story.

the dragon fly weights were... well, not that great, the original style 40-10 heel clickers will provide good clutching and transmit more power to the track then will oem weights. The set up with 8dn20 works good and is a budget clutch kit, while quite a large improvement over stock it does not transmit as much track power as does either heel clickers or super tips.
 
Aaahh yess, the book of knowledge finally makes an appearance. I was hoping you would provide some insight Mr. Viper. I like your 'bed of nails' analogy which makes perfect sense, I wasn't aware of the stud rule of thumb law but was considering the rotational mass thought. Sled came with the studs of which there is no real pattern but all are close to the slides. I am going to remove the ones on the very outside of the track. I, however, am not going to purchase a new track and studs, this race doesnt mean that much to me.... I am curious tho which kind of set up would you recommend and with the right amount of tuning would the clickers yield the best top end?
 
mrviper700 said:
rotating weight...... The more studs you run the heavier the track is, the slower your speed will be if nothing else is changed. You also get less traction as it divides up pressure exerted to each stud. Think of your childhood and you went to the circus and seen the man lay down on the bed of nails. The reason he could do that is theres so many nails it divedes up the pressure and doesn't puncture his back. Same thing with snowmobile track studs, the more you have the less pressure each stud places on the ice,hardpack,etc.
I always fall back to the 1 pick per hp rule and it works very well. You only need about 144 studs if your wanting to go fast mph and still get good traction with a stock srx. Actual patterns also have an effect as to how good they bite in. The closer the stud is to the rails the more pressure is exerted onto it making it bite harder into the surface. Modded sleds with more hp require more then 1 pick per hp but that's another story.
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IMO I think its sort of the opposite of that bed of nails analogy. Too much force per stud and the stud bottoms out, fully penetrated, then just starts ripping through the ice as the track spins (taking big chunks out since it fully penetrated). As you increase the # of studs, at some point the force per stud lowers where it just creates a scratch mark. If the pattern is right, the studs don't fall into the same scratch line and create their own. More studs, shorter the scratch line.

Woody's site recommended 192 studs for my SRX 700, which would be about 1.5 studs per hp. I've always heard to few studs and they rip out, due to too much force per stud.
 
My experience has been with trail studs anything over 144 I start going the other way. When I used to play on the ice with my 780 srx I would start with 120 in the morning when the ice was good and then go up to 144 later when the ice got chewed up. Fastest runs were always on 120 studs but as the ice would deteriorate it would slow down. This was trail studs, 1 inch trail track. When I was playing with my Viper I was running a speed track with a mix of picks and chisels
 
problem today if your ice racing sanctioned , outlaw playing , or backyard ice racing 660 ft the big turbos are destroying the ice for the little guys. the starting lines are getting shredded, now woodys has templates, patterns and recommendations for your application. 192/210 is perfect for ice racing a srx 700. for trail sure you major concern is braking so 144 is fine. 3:16x (yammie tony)
 
destey said:
IMO I think its sort of the opposite of that bed of nails analogy. Too much force per stud and the stud bottoms out, fully penetrated, then just starts ripping through the ice as the track spins (taking big chunks out since it fully penetrated). As you increase the # of studs, at some point the force per stud lowers where it just creates a scratch mark. If the pattern is right, the studs don't fall into the same scratch line and create their own. More studs, shorter the scratch line.

Woody's site recommended 192 studs for my SRX 700, which would be about 1.5 studs per hp. I've always heard to few studs and they rip out, due to too much force per stud.
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I guess I don't understand how your post would be the opposite of what I said, but pretty much the same thing. More studs equal less pressure per stud. Less studs equal more pressure per stud, exactly why the man can lay on the bed of nails. Remove half of them and he looks like a shishkabob!
Remember you also have to pull every stud BACK OUT of the ice, it takes power to do that as well, so using your example, if you have to pull out 1.5 studs vs 1 stud per hp, the 1 stud per hp will be faster because it had to do less work. Also we are talking about racing on lake,trail, etc. this is not sanctioned racing(high engagement speeds,etc)., but it does indeed apply to about every form of snowmobile racing where speed is a concern, the heavier the track is with added traction componets the less mph or speed you will see if nothing else is changed.
The analogy for that is to remove a mere 10lbs from your track, doesn't sound like much right?.... then put those studs and backers in a bag tie onto a 121 inch long rope and swing it around your head at 100mph how heavy do you think the 10lbs just got to? Same thing with track, it creates rotating weight that the sled must overcome. You already are only getting 50% of your engine power to the track via losses in the cvt system and chaincase, so instead of 140hp in a srx you have 70hp trying to spin a 35-40lb rubber track plus the traction products, could be 50-60lbs plus if a lot of studs! lighter it is the faster it goes, the only way to do that is a lighter track, LESS studs or titanium hardware, most cant afford the last option, nor would it be reasonable for trail riding/ fun racing.

thanks for your reply, ride safe!
 
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