Bushman, The reason why it did that, was the rear clutch is torq sensative, and with you allowing the clutch to shift faster with less tension it placed you in high gear faster propelling the sled , the reason it was quicker is you were actually overshifting the sled, taking the bite out of the engine curve, allowing you to hook up better on the start and get out front.
When you went the other way you were staying in the power curve more and not hooking up as well at the start, but once hooked up it gains mph because the longer you are on a given distance the faster your mph can become. The same thing happens when racing on the asphalt, a quick et wont always have high mph because you spent less time building speed and covered the ground in less time.
The thing with roller secondarys are they have a very rapid upshift and backshift(( this is what makes them so awesome for trail riding)) and what happens with the rear clutch being torq sensative is that when your going down a long lake run the the rear clutch senses a loss in torq feedback from engine and it begins to backshift while the front clutch is trying to upshift, they fight each other and it takes a big secondary spring to try and control this with a roller secondary.
When you went the other way you were staying in the power curve more and not hooking up as well at the start, but once hooked up it gains mph because the longer you are on a given distance the faster your mph can become. The same thing happens when racing on the asphalt, a quick et wont always have high mph because you spent less time building speed and covered the ground in less time.
The thing with roller secondarys are they have a very rapid upshift and backshift(( this is what makes them so awesome for trail riding)) and what happens with the rear clutch being torq sensative is that when your going down a long lake run the the rear clutch senses a loss in torq feedback from engine and it begins to backshift while the front clutch is trying to upshift, they fight each other and it takes a big secondary spring to try and control this with a roller secondary.
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vipertripplexxx
New member
Or you can go with more helix spread and achieve the best of both worlds, with the spring somewhere in the middle. roller secondarys like alot of spread.
Bushman
New member
vipertripplexxx said:
Yes they do, I was running the 50/39 on that day. Funny is when I talk with Olav Aaen he like to run a straight 50 helix on his steel on steel roller kit with his green spring. He turned me on to a 89A-10 setup that worked very well last weekend against 4 F-7's, 1 M-7 & the 800 Doo's. 89A-10's large steel rivet in first hole w/tip open, Stock y/w/y spring (I think the g/w/g would be even better) 8DN yami belt 50/39 helix with Haucks green spring set @ 80 on their roller (Should have set @ 60?)
2' of heavy wet snow running in huge fileds with a top speed of 60-70mph the Viper was hands down handing it to all of the sleds bad........ 4-5 lengths up to about 60mph with only one F-7 catching me. That F-7 was setup by Kevin Allred & he makes some fast Cats up here. Porting, Pipe, Head & Boondockers spray & a 50lb smaller driver he would mile per hour me on the big end of the field pretty bad. All in all I was happy for the first ride of the year & a unknown setup that ran pretty good...... But Ya know I just cant have that F-7 passing me like that
Bushman
New member
I guess I should add that the 2' of snow was untracked causing the 60-70mph speeds. Do you guys thing the heavy drag caused by the snow load caused the roller to back shift hurting the mph? Had a shiny ring on the primary sheaves the last 1" of shift out but no belt marks that I think was caused from the secondary setting or lack of tip weight.
21/38 gearing with 8-tooth drivers for a top speed of 92 mph & 136"x2" track..... Just figured I could have pulled a little better mph? Jetting was a tic Phat @ the time.
21/38 gearing with 8-tooth drivers for a top speed of 92 mph & 136"x2" track..... Just figured I could have pulled a little better mph? Jetting was a tic Phat @ the time.
With the rear clutch being torq sensative, and being a roller secondary on top of that, no matter how much you spread the angles you still will have to use a stiffer rear secondary spring then a button clutch! Its the only way to even remotely controll the shift. A stiff rear secondary spring will NEVER be as fast as a looser one. A stiffer spring in the rear will always want to backshift before a looser one, now add in the effect of the roller with greatly reduced friction on the ramps of the helix and you have some very quick reacting clutch. This is absolutely a good thing for trail riding and or just playing around, but for drag racing or top speed runs it will always hamper the result somewhat no matter what you do, spring,helix spread etc, its the nature of the beast!
When you hit untouched snow it absolutely backshifted, its supposed too, but with a roller clutch the backshift is faster and to a greater degree then a button clutch. If ya want a all around good trail and off trail clutch set up keep your roller, if your worried about drag racing and topspeed throw a button secondary on.
Remember, you cant have a drag set up in a sled that performs equally as well trail riding and gives you the best top speed, those are all differnt recipes in clutching and to get something in clutching, you have to be willing to give up something somewhere else to gain it!
When you hit untouched snow it absolutely backshifted, its supposed too, but with a roller clutch the backshift is faster and to a greater degree then a button clutch. If ya want a all around good trail and off trail clutch set up keep your roller, if your worried about drag racing and topspeed throw a button secondary on.
Remember, you cant have a drag set up in a sled that performs equally as well trail riding and gives you the best top speed, those are all differnt recipes in clutching and to get something in clutching, you have to be willing to give up something somewhere else to gain it!
Bushman
New member
Remember, you cant have a drag set up in a sled that performs equally as well trail riding and gives you the best top speed, those are all differnt recipes in clutching and to get something in clutching, you have to be willing to give up something somewhere else to gain it!
But Dad! Jk, Don Thank's Just the nature of the beast I guess wanting it all. Tell Ya though when I got home I put my other clutches on & rejetted because they showed me what they had & next time I got them covered bigtime I'm thinking.
Sorry for hijacking this thread!
But Dad! Jk, Don Thank's Just the nature of the beast I guess wanting it all. Tell Ya though when I got home I put my other clutches on & rejetted because they showed me what they had & next time I got them covered bigtime I'm thinking.
Sorry for hijacking this thread!
LOL@ Randy.........now go do your chores..........
x2ryder
New member
So are we saying for racing go green and for radar runs go silver?
it all depends on your set up,taction, chasis.
vipertripplexxx
New member
Dalton makes a 51-36, ya might want to try it with the addition of a tad of tip weight. I,m assuming you RPM's were steady, not over reving. Aaen's green spring is huge, it has a boat load of torsion, thats how he's getting away with a straight cut helix. I think if you can fix the problem with the helix it's always better than more spring. M2C.
Bushman
New member
vipertripplexxx said:
Got Ya, The rpm's from a dig nail 8600 which gets me in the tourqe curve & really gets the sled hauling. In what seems like 4-500' the tach is hitting 8800 & then climbs to 9000-9100 (Snow conditions really effect this though by a couple hundred rpm) when she is shifting out & that works way better for racing than going for the straight 9000rpm shift....... But it sure does feel fast with the straight shift
Olav's green spring is inbetween his blue & brown, I find the blue is too soft with the roller & feels way to shifty & the brown I think NASA uses to launch the shuttle.
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Bushman
New member
x2ryder said:
Yupp, Tell ya that last season we was @ a local field race & a couple guys riding a stock Viper ER & Venom was getting spanked bigtime. We asked if we could screw with their sleds to get them running better & they were all for it. We tightened both their secondarys as tight as we could get them & it was amazing how many sled lengths they made up in 7-800 feet across the snow covered tracked up field..... They where as amazed as I & the Doo guys was scratching their heads! lmao
Test test & test is what it takes & it's only 5 minutes to set the secondary. Not sure about you guys but I usually ride with a 12mm & 14mm socket with a extra spring in the trunk.
A quote from Hammer "He who is tuned for the days snow conditions wins"
Apparently I need a functioning teather cord to enter the radar runs. Anyone know how?
Bushman
New member
gates26 said:
That would be a good add to the Tech Section being as Yamaha left them out, I had help from Skidooboy & Grape when I did mine & just dont remember what wires I tied into...... It took me longer to find a spot for the button placment than to do the rest. I ended up above the hand warmer dials, Easy to get to but out of the way.
Have a Great weekend all! Gotta head south for the In-Laws Christmas...... @ least there is no ridable snow
I ran Yamaha 89L's & GGG spring also H/C's & the Red. Weight in the tip to get 8500 rpm's with 41/49 Hauck helix with a red spring wound 40, degrees. 20/39 gears, 192 picks. With a best 97 in 1000' with both combos. Sounds like your in the ballpark. Good Luck!!!
bluewho
Active member
you would think tying into the kill button would work.gates26 said:
First test run today with the heel clickers 112mph on the gaydar spinning at 7800-8100. Just need to remove some tip weight. But still had lots of fun spanking those 800 and 1000 doo's and couple cats. Thanks for the tuning help mrviper.
Bushman
New member
gates26 said:
Rock On!!!!!!!
redsnake3
New member
gates26 said:
i believe i tied mine into the brown wire off the ignition. im not exactly sure now i would have to look.