sleddheadd
New member
this is how oil works!
I personally have never heard of oil freezing .... but then again i have never seen no snow after jan. 1st in munising either.....The Breakdown on oil
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for all those who have ever wondered about what type/wieght of oil to use, hopefully this helps!
Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:55 pm Post subject:
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the society of automotive engineers(SAE) have established 12 different viscosity grades. vicosity grades will determine the oils dynamic viscosity and kinematic viscosity.
the dynamic viscosity is the first # you see usually followed by a W , which , yes , you can associate that # with winter to help you think of how it performs in cold weather.the SAE has determined 6 grades of "winter" formulas beginning with 0W and working up to 25W in 5 point incriments. what they are measureing with this is the lubricants ability to pump 60,000centipointe units with no yield stress at certain temps. for ex.
0W = 60,000 cP @-40*C
5W = 60,000 cP @-35*C
10W = 60,000 cP @ -30*C and so on till 25Wwhich is 60,000 cP@-15
basically the smaller the # the better protection for colder temps.
the next # measures the lubricants ability to pour or its kinemetric viscosity, which is measured by the time it takes an oil to pour out of a container. the temp. is always consistant at 100*C (212*F)
this is #ered from 20 -60 in 10 pt incriments and is measured using sabolt universal second(sus) for ex.
sae20@100*c will empty in min.5.6sus and a max. of9.3sus
30 = 9.3sus - 12.5sus
40 = 12.5sus- 16.3sus
60 = 21.9sus - 26.1sus
in other words the oil will empty out of the container just by pouring in 5.6 seconds (roughly) to 9.3 seconds
remember you do not want your oil viscosity to thin in hot temps. because you will lose you ability to lubricate and protect your engine.
a good ex is this. a truck driver leaves florida with a load of oranges heading for minnesota, in fla. he runs SAE 30 oil because of the ambient temp. in fla. when he (or she) get to min. the driver finds the SAE 30 is to viscious or thick to handle the sub zero temps and is having a hard time starting the vehicle. after changing oil to an SAE 15W the starting problem is solved and he can continue on. when he gets back to fla. he finds the SAE 15W is to thin due to the high temps. in fla. therefore the lubricant can not protect the engine like it should.
thus, they have made multi viscosity oils. the point is not that a certain oil is thicker or thinner because under different circumstances they will all flow the same it just depends on the temp. of the product.
how many times have we been in the north woods and the temp. has been -30* one day and 30* the next? i've seen it! make sure you choose an oil that is best for your climate and has a broad viscosity range to cover those sudden changes in weather!
basically the ultimate protection for any motor would be a 0W-60 but the viscosity range of that oil is nearly impossible to achieve
i run amsoil 0W-40 four stroke in mine and i love it!
next post on different comparitive tests run by the american petroleum institute(API) and exactly how and why an oil breaks down !
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my head hurts after writing all of this!!!
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I personally have never heard of oil freezing .... but then again i have never seen no snow after jan. 1st in munising either.....The Breakdown on oil
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
for all those who have ever wondered about what type/wieght of oil to use, hopefully this helps!
Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:55 pm Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
the society of automotive engineers(SAE) have established 12 different viscosity grades. vicosity grades will determine the oils dynamic viscosity and kinematic viscosity.
the dynamic viscosity is the first # you see usually followed by a W , which , yes , you can associate that # with winter to help you think of how it performs in cold weather.the SAE has determined 6 grades of "winter" formulas beginning with 0W and working up to 25W in 5 point incriments. what they are measureing with this is the lubricants ability to pump 60,000centipointe units with no yield stress at certain temps. for ex.
0W = 60,000 cP @-40*C
5W = 60,000 cP @-35*C
10W = 60,000 cP @ -30*C and so on till 25Wwhich is 60,000 cP@-15
basically the smaller the # the better protection for colder temps.
the next # measures the lubricants ability to pour or its kinemetric viscosity, which is measured by the time it takes an oil to pour out of a container. the temp. is always consistant at 100*C (212*F)
this is #ered from 20 -60 in 10 pt incriments and is measured using sabolt universal second(sus) for ex.
sae20@100*c will empty in min.5.6sus and a max. of9.3sus
30 = 9.3sus - 12.5sus
40 = 12.5sus- 16.3sus
60 = 21.9sus - 26.1sus
in other words the oil will empty out of the container just by pouring in 5.6 seconds (roughly) to 9.3 seconds
remember you do not want your oil viscosity to thin in hot temps. because you will lose you ability to lubricate and protect your engine.
a good ex is this. a truck driver leaves florida with a load of oranges heading for minnesota, in fla. he runs SAE 30 oil because of the ambient temp. in fla. when he (or she) get to min. the driver finds the SAE 30 is to viscious or thick to handle the sub zero temps and is having a hard time starting the vehicle. after changing oil to an SAE 15W the starting problem is solved and he can continue on. when he gets back to fla. he finds the SAE 15W is to thin due to the high temps. in fla. therefore the lubricant can not protect the engine like it should.
thus, they have made multi viscosity oils. the point is not that a certain oil is thicker or thinner because under different circumstances they will all flow the same it just depends on the temp. of the product.
how many times have we been in the north woods and the temp. has been -30* one day and 30* the next? i've seen it! make sure you choose an oil that is best for your climate and has a broad viscosity range to cover those sudden changes in weather!
basically the ultimate protection for any motor would be a 0W-60 but the viscosity range of that oil is nearly impossible to achieve
i run amsoil 0W-40 four stroke in mine and i love it!
next post on different comparitive tests run by the american petroleum institute(API) and exactly how and why an oil breaks down !
_________________
my head hurts after writing all of this!!!
__________________
I just got back from 80 + degree Caribbean cruise,, so i am not thinking anything cold right now,,,,but to answer your questions,, OIL DOES FREEZE..... ROCK SOLID!!!! I have personally done labs on the freezing point of oils!!! It was on conventional AND synthetic oils... The brands were Quaker State, pennzoil,Valvoline, Amsoil and Esterlube.. it was in school about 25 years ago.. we used 10w30 and 10w40 oils... Ouaker state was ROCK SOLID at -21 below zero!!!! Needless to say,, I do not recommend Quaker State to anyone!!! pennzoil was a close second to being JUNK and VALVOLINE weathered the best at -42 below!!!! ACTUAL TEMPERATURES!!!! Wind chill is an EFFECT that is figured for WHAT REASON I still cannot figure out... Wind will dissapate heat more rapidly and HUMAN skin will freeze that much quicker,,, but,, IT HAS NO EFFECT on ambient temperature,,, Hence the word AMBIENT!!!! GASOLINE WILL NOT vaporize UNDER 34 below zero,,,, so,,, if your sled is BELOW 34 below zero,,,, DO NOT TRY STARTING IT because YOU WILL flood it out IMMEDIATELY!!!! COMPRESSION produces heat and so does friction,, so your sled MAY start after cranking it a bunch of times,,,but the probability of it flooding is VERY GOOD!!!! KLOTZ and ANSOIL are VERY THICK (around 90 weight) at 34 below and its NOT A VERY GOOD IDEA to even ride a sled when its so cold out!!!
terret725
New member
any liquid or gas(as in vapor nor gasoline) can freeze at a low enough temp. i took a hydraulics class and one thing we learned was how to pick an oil for dif temps cause the colder it gets the lighter the oil u need. like a 40 or 50 should almost turn to almost grease at around -50. viscosity is proportional to temp. that means the colder it gets the thicker it gets unless its a multi weight like a 10/30 cause then at cold temps the molecules form to make it like a 10 weight and at warmer temp they form a 40. its very possible it thicken up and should be fine if it was sealed. as long as there was no water in it it should be fine. and seeing how oil is no water soluble it wouldn't be dispersed threw out the oil just at the bottom.
When it's below zero. and more to -25 / -30, a very simple reality test while our crew from the Honda dealer trailering a pack of ATV's uncovered up to the cabin with different oils in each one proved a point quickly. No attempt to use electric start during the test. Only once it's running.
The machine with 10/40 in it was so stiff, you could barely drag the rope out a foot. It was dragged into the cabin. Or it's not going anywhere.
While the machine with 5/30 Kendal synthetic pulled over like it was at room temperature. And fired right up.
This is for sure where the synthetics really shine at sub temps.
One very interesting story while remanufacturing aircraft over the years came to light when the old timers gathered in the hanger telling about their missions during WWII.
I've worked on these huge radials, and it's amazing to hear how these guys would get these beasts in arctic conditions running. The oil is basically glue sitting over night, and are a beast to get running when it's summer.
These are 9 cylinders per bank at 450 HP per bank, and super charged, and can be up to 4 banks of 9 cylinders..On bombers.
They added aviation fuel to the oil to unglue them to get them running.
As the engine warms up, the fuel evaporates out.
At what ratio? Hard to say. I guess logically little by little till it works.
This tactic could come in handy on an old truck, but I'm a little afraid of doing it to a pricey toy.
The machine with 10/40 in it was so stiff, you could barely drag the rope out a foot. It was dragged into the cabin. Or it's not going anywhere.
While the machine with 5/30 Kendal synthetic pulled over like it was at room temperature. And fired right up.
This is for sure where the synthetics really shine at sub temps.
One very interesting story while remanufacturing aircraft over the years came to light when the old timers gathered in the hanger telling about their missions during WWII.
I've worked on these huge radials, and it's amazing to hear how these guys would get these beasts in arctic conditions running. The oil is basically glue sitting over night, and are a beast to get running when it's summer.
These are 9 cylinders per bank at 450 HP per bank, and super charged, and can be up to 4 banks of 9 cylinders..On bombers.
They added aviation fuel to the oil to unglue them to get them running.
As the engine warms up, the fuel evaporates out.
At what ratio? Hard to say. I guess logically little by little till it works.
This tactic could come in handy on an old truck, but I'm a little afraid of doing it to a pricey toy.
we DID take the oils to 42 below zero and the valvoline and the synthetics were the ONLY OILS able to flow.. The Quaker State and the Pennzoil (conventional oils) were either FROZEN hard as a rock or worse than grease and would NOT FLOW!!! Valvoline flowed at 42 below along with the synthetics!!!