LB Racing
New member
This is very true! Just spend some time testing and figure out what it likes and what it doesn't like. The people who win the most usually spend alot of time testing before race season. We usually start testing early.Junior said:
where i can find the snow to test my srx
Junior
New member
LB Racing said:
when I was racing, every heat race meant atleast 10 passes testing. Takes bigtime dedication.
Junior
New member
modsrx said:
you're screwed for snow now, but the day it hits, be out there, every night after work, with a box of clutch parts, a box of jets, a box of gears, bag of transfer rods shims.
The more passes you make the better off you will be.
If you don't have them I'd recommend Aaens books on both clutching and jetting, will teach you tons.
if you're getting really serious you can play around with spark plug heat gauges, fuel types, oil mix ratios.
especially with snow racing, don't forget to experiment with different staging techniques, whether you wanna saw it in, bang it down, walk on it and tramp it down first, kick it all up so it's loose, etc, etc.
and seriously, if you guys only take 1 word of advice from me regarding tuning, right EVERYTHING down, from EVERY pass. I'll see if I can dig up some of the tuning sheets that I used to use, if I can find 'em I'll post 'em up and you guys can all use 'em.
EricMichael
New member
sounds like a plan 
last year i thought i had the viper dialed in pretty good, actually took a first in 700 mod and 3rd in 800 mod one race. But now i found out i'm running way to rich of jets, 153.5's opposed to the recommended 145's. Hopefully gain alittle ET there, we'll see..just takes lots of playing with. I actually have 4-5 sets of weights and turk suggested the 8ca's and they do work the best thats for sure. but i'll let you all know what happens each pass here in a couple weeks. I think the first grass drag around here starts the end of august.
last year i thought i had the viper dialed in pretty good, actually took a first in 700 mod and 3rd in 800 mod one race. But now i found out i'm running way to rich of jets, 153.5's opposed to the recommended 145's. Hopefully gain alittle ET there, we'll see..just takes lots of playing with. I actually have 4-5 sets of weights and turk suggested the 8ca's and they do work the best thats for sure. but i'll let you all know what happens each pass here in a couple weeks. I think the first grass drag around here starts the end of august.
EricMichael
New member
Junior said:
I dont have a cool-cart set-up and probably wont have one until next year..so happens to be i have to run the viper with a hot motor and most likely (depending on how close the races are set) cool pipes. Can i wrap them with something to keep them warm and just ice the block? any ideas i'd love to hear. This is only my 3rd year really getting into it.
Junior
New member
everybody has a different set-up that works for them, for me I always had luck with 8BU's and then with heelclickers, the rest of your set-up has a lot to do with it tho.
I can't upload this directly to the forum, so here's a link to it on megaupload
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=TDDJU1AQ
you'll have to wait a few seconds before you can DL it, it's in *.xls format, so you'll need to open it with excel, This isn't my old ones, but it's something similar that I drew up real quick. I'd recommend having a folder for each sled and each track you run on. Sort 'em by prevalent conditions, this way you can flick thru and find your best time in conditions most similar to those of the day you're running and use that set-up. If you are using an EGT, you could add a row in for that on the carb side. I tried to just punch this out quick so it can help the most number of people right off the bat. Sub in whatever you want in the bottom right corner, whatever you use to gauge your speed or time, or both. I used a timing system and a radar gun, but not everyone has access to that kinda gear. Honestly it doesn't really matter what you use, so long as it's consistent.
Print these off either on a B-size sheet, or double sided on an A-size, by all means, feel free to shuffle stuff around to however it suits you best, like I say, it's not important that I can read your sheet, or anyone else, since 9 of 10 racers will keep most of this stuff under lock and key anyways. What's important is that YOU can read it and sort thru it fast.
anyways, cheers man, hope it's a good starting point for you, I'm gonna see about Tom hosting this, reality is that EVERYONE should be using this or something similar to this when they go tuning. Takes most of the guesswork out of the process.
I can't upload this directly to the forum, so here's a link to it on megaupload
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=TDDJU1AQ
you'll have to wait a few seconds before you can DL it, it's in *.xls format, so you'll need to open it with excel, This isn't my old ones, but it's something similar that I drew up real quick. I'd recommend having a folder for each sled and each track you run on. Sort 'em by prevalent conditions, this way you can flick thru and find your best time in conditions most similar to those of the day you're running and use that set-up. If you are using an EGT, you could add a row in for that on the carb side. I tried to just punch this out quick so it can help the most number of people right off the bat. Sub in whatever you want in the bottom right corner, whatever you use to gauge your speed or time, or both. I used a timing system and a radar gun, but not everyone has access to that kinda gear. Honestly it doesn't really matter what you use, so long as it's consistent.
Print these off either on a B-size sheet, or double sided on an A-size, by all means, feel free to shuffle stuff around to however it suits you best, like I say, it's not important that I can read your sheet, or anyone else, since 9 of 10 racers will keep most of this stuff under lock and key anyways. What's important is that YOU can read it and sort thru it fast.
anyways, cheers man, hope it's a good starting point for you, I'm gonna see about Tom hosting this, reality is that EVERYONE should be using this or something similar to this when they go tuning. Takes most of the guesswork out of the process.
Junior
New member
Oh, as far as hot pipes cold motor, ya throw a cover in over the pipes, the heavy sled covers worked well in my experience. Icing the motor directly is asking to warp a head, I'd drop it in ontop of the front heat exchanger if I was running pods (that'll cool your fuel too, which is good news) or pour water over the side exchangers would work too.
Without a cool down you will not get consistant testing results that you can apply track to track, unless your letting the sled cool off to a certain temp each pass and even this will not provide the same results as you cant control the inside crankcase temp within reason. They sell little pyrometors that you just point at the object and it reads the temps. I guess people dont realize that a 2 stroke runs RICHER the warmer it is!!! So each pass you run the sled the richer it becomes, no matter how the jets are, each pass temp is added, the engine is richer then before, it will make less overall hp and drop more rapidly thru out the engine run time! The steel crankshaft/bearings/rods/steel bearing races in cases will hold heat long after the aluminum cylinders/heads have dissipated heat, and a warm crank heats up your inlet mixture, making it less dense,thus youll have a richer engine, LOWER on power in a SHORT accelaration run. This is precisely the reason most any drag sled will always make its quickest run the very first pass, the pipes get warmed up on the clean out but the crankshaft and rods have not gotten heat soaked so the air/fuel mixture is more cold/dense and makes more hp!
For a short accelaration run leaner mixtures makes more power faster then a richer mixture does, we are talking 6 seconds or less, not a lake race or 1/4 mile asphalt. It simply results in the pipe temp coming up faster resulting in a better return wave from the pipe. Exhaust gasses travel at the speed of sound but only at a certain temp for a given pipe, richer would slow down the return signals(because of a lower temp , increased time to reach the speed of sound, 1675 ft per sec.) time till later in the drag race, like 300ft down the track...too late.
Now, I will definitely say "yes" a motor will like fuel up top, no doubt about that, FUEL IS MPH!!! take away alot of fuel and youll instantly see a decrease in mph, but you will also see the short times pick up or gain,drop time from your short time. Take any 2 stroke engine either in the field or dyno and make the bsfc(dyno) at .450-.490 and watch the engine build hp very rapidly at a great gain per 1000 rpm, but then somewhere in the rpm range,usually near peak rpm it will taper off(if it doesnt seize) or rapidly begin to fall, this is where you need the fuel(again we are talking about 6 seconds or less here, the typical time of a 500ft grass drag!). most times when a engine is run on a dyno to make big hp it will be too lean to actually run in the field with the dyno jetting, and this all comes down to how the motor is actually loaded in the sled on the ground versus the dyno load applied and or the type of dyno pull made. I have seen motors make great hp on the pump only to fall right on thier face when in the field, put back in the richer jetting from the dyno jetting and the sled instantly comes back to life, the key is finding the jetting that will work for your clutching,suspension, load requirments of your sled, just get it close, thats all you need for backyard racing.
In grass drags with a srx, stock srx pipes, I used 45-47.5 pilot jets, needles dropped but shimmed slightly, and ran 135 mains, this worked good for 500ft, but at 520ft it would most likely nose over and/or seize the piston slightly, but what your after is rapid engine power, not long runs which do require alot more fuel. In 500ft your barely into the main jet, maybe only the last 125ft at the most, the rest of the run was on the pilot/needle circuit. You need the larger pilot jet because the main being smaller and needle not being over rich will cause the carb to flow a large amount of air and not fuel, going from idle or engagement speed to instantly wide open, the rush of incoming air needs the pilot to over fuel the air(richen) for a second to allow the engine to raise rpm and not cough or backfire thru the intake(which is a lean condition) into the next stage which is the needle, all carb circuits overlap each other so your never on the main till a good ways out from the start, remember me saying its tuff to blow em up in 500ft but not 501ft....LOL ...right theres why.
For backyard racing all you need to do is have the jetting "close", safe and close, getting every last hp wont make the differance between winning and losing. As the engine wont be run the same temp each pass nor will the track be groomed to what a professional starting line would be. The sled being just run for fun/grudge racing will gain the most from clutching and some suspension work. As long as the piston tops and plugs are not wet/black and or dry bare alum. looking youll be just fine. Just get her close on jets, work on getting a timer or at least use your speedo on a marked off distance and run the same routine every time, write stuff down, because youll make improvements then youll change more stuff and slow it down.........LOL!
Dont get too wrapped up in all the work needed to prepare for professional racing or youll soon see the fun factor leaving it very quickly.
For a short accelaration run leaner mixtures makes more power faster then a richer mixture does, we are talking 6 seconds or less, not a lake race or 1/4 mile asphalt. It simply results in the pipe temp coming up faster resulting in a better return wave from the pipe. Exhaust gasses travel at the speed of sound but only at a certain temp for a given pipe, richer would slow down the return signals(because of a lower temp , increased time to reach the speed of sound, 1675 ft per sec.) time till later in the drag race, like 300ft down the track...too late.
Now, I will definitely say "yes" a motor will like fuel up top, no doubt about that, FUEL IS MPH!!! take away alot of fuel and youll instantly see a decrease in mph, but you will also see the short times pick up or gain,drop time from your short time. Take any 2 stroke engine either in the field or dyno and make the bsfc(dyno) at .450-.490 and watch the engine build hp very rapidly at a great gain per 1000 rpm, but then somewhere in the rpm range,usually near peak rpm it will taper off(if it doesnt seize) or rapidly begin to fall, this is where you need the fuel(again we are talking about 6 seconds or less here, the typical time of a 500ft grass drag!). most times when a engine is run on a dyno to make big hp it will be too lean to actually run in the field with the dyno jetting, and this all comes down to how the motor is actually loaded in the sled on the ground versus the dyno load applied and or the type of dyno pull made. I have seen motors make great hp on the pump only to fall right on thier face when in the field, put back in the richer jetting from the dyno jetting and the sled instantly comes back to life, the key is finding the jetting that will work for your clutching,suspension, load requirments of your sled, just get it close, thats all you need for backyard racing.
In grass drags with a srx, stock srx pipes, I used 45-47.5 pilot jets, needles dropped but shimmed slightly, and ran 135 mains, this worked good for 500ft, but at 520ft it would most likely nose over and/or seize the piston slightly, but what your after is rapid engine power, not long runs which do require alot more fuel. In 500ft your barely into the main jet, maybe only the last 125ft at the most, the rest of the run was on the pilot/needle circuit. You need the larger pilot jet because the main being smaller and needle not being over rich will cause the carb to flow a large amount of air and not fuel, going from idle or engagement speed to instantly wide open, the rush of incoming air needs the pilot to over fuel the air(richen) for a second to allow the engine to raise rpm and not cough or backfire thru the intake(which is a lean condition) into the next stage which is the needle, all carb circuits overlap each other so your never on the main till a good ways out from the start, remember me saying its tuff to blow em up in 500ft but not 501ft....LOL ...right theres why.
For backyard racing all you need to do is have the jetting "close", safe and close, getting every last hp wont make the differance between winning and losing. As the engine wont be run the same temp each pass nor will the track be groomed to what a professional starting line would be. The sled being just run for fun/grudge racing will gain the most from clutching and some suspension work. As long as the piston tops and plugs are not wet/black and or dry bare alum. looking youll be just fine. Just get her close on jets, work on getting a timer or at least use your speedo on a marked off distance and run the same routine every time, write stuff down, because youll make improvements then youll change more stuff and slow it down.........LOL!
Dont get too wrapped up in all the work needed to prepare for professional racing or youll soon see the fun factor leaving it very quickly.
Junior
New member
mrviper700 said:
LB Racing
New member
Been racing professionally now for a long time, still find it alot of fun. I get even more caught up every year. We have gone from running stockers to improvers to now pro stk and heavy mods. Running pro. is very expensive and time consuming, but is alot of fun. If anything I think the politics get a little out of hand.
EricMichael just make your own cool down cart. Just go get a cooler, a bilge pump, some quick connects, and hose, oh and a battery, and go to town. Can be done relativly cheap. Well worth the investment.
EricMichael just make your own cool down cart. Just go get a cooler, a bilge pump, some quick connects, and hose, oh and a battery, and go to town. Can be done relativly cheap. Well worth the investment.
mrviper700 said:
I completly agree.I started out without a cool down unit.It's a must!
I also agree it's more fun when I raced the barn yard circuit.Than the professional circuit traveling around which also did very well but it wasn't as much fun.Staying up most of the nights sometimes and then traveling sometimes 8hrs or so to race.Not alone add up all your traveling fuel,race fuel,motel expenses,pit crew,dinner bill being on the road.It really add's up when you race the professional circuits.
Junior
New member
how you'll enjoy racing barnyard stuff versus pro stuff is completely dependant upon the person. Some people will be happy to race around at backyard events, others that wont be enough. I personally couldn't run around at backyard stuff, pro series was where I had to go to enjoy myself.
It is worth noting tho, that when you start getting serious and money starts getting involved, it tends to mean alot more to you. That can be either good or bad depending on your personality and what all else you've got going on in life.
It is worth noting tho, that when you start getting serious and money starts getting involved, it tends to mean alot more to you. That can be either good or bad depending on your personality and what all else you've got going on in life.
YAMMIEGOD3:16
Active member
THE BARN YARD STUFF HAS BURIED THE PRO RACES HERE IN NY. NOT EVEN CLOSE. YOU GUYS TELL ME WHATS BETTER, PAY 10.00 BUCKS AND MAKE AS MANY RUNS AS YOU WANT OR CAN AGAINST STRANGERS OR YOUR BUDDIES. OR GO TO A PRO SATIONED EVENT, GET CRUSHED AFTER ONE RUN OR BETTER YET YOUR ENTRIE FEE GOES INTO THE PRO PURSE EVEN THOUGH YOUR A GUY WHO JUST WANTS TO RACE IN THE FALL. EXAMPLE: FRIEND OF MINE DOSE HUGE SHOOTOUT EVERY FALL. LAST YEAR 175 SLEDS. WOODY,S CHALLENGE HERE IN NY, PRO SANTION RACE , 40 SLEDS. ITS PRETTY SIMPLE. 3:16 (yammie tony)
Junior
New member
at that point it comes down to the question, Are you going out to put some runs in, or are you going out to see what you can do against the best?
YAMMIEGOD3:16
Active member
AND YOUR ANSWER, MOST WANT TO JUST HAVE FUN AND DO SOME RACING. !! 3:16 (yammie tony)
LB Racing
New member
You are right most people just do it for fun. Thats how it started for me, but now I really like running against the best guys out there to see how we stack up against them. If you are gonna run big leauge you gotta have all your ducks in a row and spend alot of time just testing. Testing is the key to winning.
Junior
New member
that's the truth LB.
thing is that like I said before, everyone is different. The level of involvement that you'll be happy at is completely dependant on the kind of person you are.
thing is that like I said before, everyone is different. The level of involvement that you'll be happy at is completely dependant on the kind of person you are.
The level of testing & tuning involved in competing in a high level sanctioned drag race event is 10-fold vs back yard outlaw racing. I have been to events where I got there at 10 am & my first run was at 4PM. It just takes way too much time & last year was my last winter for doing it. Gonna have some fun this winter in impromptu head to head good fun last man standing racing.
YAMMIEGOD3:16
Active member
JUNIOR AND LB RACING. YOU GUYS HAVE VALID POINTS TO STEP UP 10 LEVELS TO THE HIGHEST COMPEITION. SEE I DID THAT IN LATE EIGHTES AND EARLY NINETIES WITH MY 77 SRX. WHAT YOU CAN,T EXPLAIN THOUGH IS THE HUGE DECLINE IN PRO EVENTS VS THE HUGE TURNOUTS AT OUTLAW EVENTS. LOOK AT WHAT I HAVE SEEN WEIGHING UP THE TWO.
PRO EVENTS.
1. HUGE ENTRIE FEE
2. HUGE SET-UP FEE TO TRACK OWNER
3. AMATEUR CLASS RACERS TREATED LIKE CRAP.
4. F-7 NATIONALS
OUTLAW EVENTS.
1. FUN FOR ANY KIND OF SLED
2. MAKE AS MANY RUNS AS YOU WANT.
3. CHEAP
4. BRING YOUR SLED OUT BEFORE SNOW FLYS AND DO SOME RACING.
5. NO ARGUEMENTS OVER PAY OUT PURSE TO WINNERS.
I HAVE DONE BOTH, TODAY BACK YARD STUFF WAY BETTER. 3:16 (yammie tony)
PRO EVENTS.
1. HUGE ENTRIE FEE
2. HUGE SET-UP FEE TO TRACK OWNER
3. AMATEUR CLASS RACERS TREATED LIKE CRAP.
4. F-7 NATIONALS
OUTLAW EVENTS.
1. FUN FOR ANY KIND OF SLED
2. MAKE AS MANY RUNS AS YOU WANT.
3. CHEAP
4. BRING YOUR SLED OUT BEFORE SNOW FLYS AND DO SOME RACING.
5. NO ARGUEMENTS OVER PAY OUT PURSE TO WINNERS.
I HAVE DONE BOTH, TODAY BACK YARD STUFF WAY BETTER. 3:16 (yammie tony)