Did I ever tell you why I don't use amsoil???
daman
New member
no but your going too.....nosboy said:
DO you want a FULL PAGE ESSAY or just MY OPINION???
daman
New member
A qwick run down with some details..
It all started with the dealer at the NOVI show!!! He came up to me and tried to push his product, NATURALLY,,, knowing a LITTLE about oils,,, I HAD TO hear him out... he showed me some pictures and explained what was happening in those pictures... I don't know if someone just FED HIM the garbage that he was feeding me,,,but,,, needless to say,, I STARTED HAMMERING HIM with QUESTIONS!!!! HE REALLY didn't have much of an idea of WHAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT and even less of an idea of what he was trying to sell after about 4 or 5 minutes of telling him "how it is"... After I told him WHO I WAS and WHERE I came from,, he IGNORED ME LIKE THE PLAGUE!!!! Apparently he was just a BAD salesman and didn't REALLY KNOW what he was selling,,, he just wanted to MAKE MONEY selling it... I HAVE NO PROBLEM with the product,,, it's just the guy selling it!!!! On the other hand,,,, I LIKE THE WAY KLOTZ smells!!!!!!
daman
New member
Ok......now i remember you saying that,is that all the it is?
i thought you had some technical data to post, i could care less who
sells it, i KNOW it's a good product with good adds and a great syn.
base stock.
a crappy sales man isn't going to make the oil not perform well. lol
thanks anyway Gary...
i thought you had some technical data to post, i could care less who
sells it, i KNOW it's a good product with good adds and a great syn.
base stock.
a crappy sales man isn't going to make the oil not perform well. lol
thanks anyway Gary...
daman
New member
The only thing i don't like about it is it's clear golden like regular motor
oil, evey time i pour it in i feel like i'm pouring car oil in my 2-stroke sled.lol
oil, evey time i pour it in i feel like i'm pouring car oil in my 2-stroke sled.lol
JeepTherapy said:Well I pulled my head back off to take a new look at my cylinders. Snapped a couple pics while I was at it. I took a clean rag saturated with some sea foam and wiped out the cylinders. I was amazed at how good they looked after simply cleaning them off. They went from the nasty brown scratched look to relatively clean silver with a nice cross hatch pattern. I have decided that I have no fears as to the condition of my cylinders anymore. I was afraid they needed to be re-plated. I am going to run it as is this year and see where I am at for next year. Lord only knows what I will want to do with it at the end of this season if we get enough snow to get some riding time in.
I did however find the condition of the exhaust ports somewhat perplexing. Can someone explain the difference in appearance between the manifolds? All three cylinders have the same jets 165/55. The motor has only been ran at an idle with those manifolds, jets and pipes installed. Is that an indication that my pilots are too big on the center and too small on the PTO? I didn't think the pictures are good enough to show blow by on the pistons?
One more pic of another cylinder. They all look the same. I was using Quaker State TC-3 oil . I just ordered 2 cases of Amsoil for this season. Hopefully they will look the same next year with the different oil.
sxr_700
New member
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2004
- Messages
- 85
Where is your piston wash, did you clean them up before the pics?
Jeeptherapy, what I see in your pic of the pistin at BDC, BEFORE, you cleaned off the carbon(post at 9am today, #34)was you checked the squish in the engine with solder and something else is evident and easy to spot, you see the brown thats in the transfer ports on the sides?? This is blow by!! Its the intake reinhaling exhaust, this is whats leaving the brown in the transfer ports.
Yamalube is the reason as to why it was so dirty when you took it apart, not something unusual for this oil, its nothing great. Switching to a synthetic oil will resolve that problem, however it woould be in my opinion to at least rering the pistons now.
I am not gonna argue with others on here about honing cylinders, thats a dead horse. You can do it if they are glazed up, if they are not its no big deal as all the new rings come with a moly type coating and its slightly abrasive to help the ring seat to the nicasil plating which is very,very hard.
Yamalube is the reason as to why it was so dirty when you took it apart, not something unusual for this oil, its nothing great. Switching to a synthetic oil will resolve that problem, however it woould be in my opinion to at least rering the pistons now.
I am not gonna argue with others on here about honing cylinders, thats a dead horse. You can do it if they are glazed up, if they are not its no big deal as all the new rings come with a moly type coating and its slightly abrasive to help the ring seat to the nicasil plating which is very,very hard.
JeepTherapy
New member
First, SXR700 very sorry to hijack your post. Although I do feel it was all on topic. daman, nosboy,MrViper and all the others that have replied, thanks for all the insightful information. I have read so much in the last couple days that my eyes hurt.
The information on the Brush Research Manufacturing site was interesting. What troubled me is it kind of reminded me of the information Slick 50 used to publish. I will leave that alone as I don't see me doing it anyway. I don't think I will re ring my motor, I think I will have someone else do it.
SXR700- you asked about a picture that showed the uncleaned tops of the cylinders;
Not sure that one shows what your looking for, but it is one of the best I have of the piston tops.
Now, most importantly, do I have a case to have my rings replaced under warranty? Like I mentioned earlier I have a couple months left on my warranty and 5000 miles on my sled. I have spoken briefly with my dealer about it and essentially he told me that if it didn't fail the compression check they can't cover it.
My sled has been dealer maintained and I have ran the recommended oil in it every tank. (YAMALUBE) I have also bought all my oil from the same dealer. My point is, I maintained the snowmobile as per the manufacturer and dealer recommendations. Now I have a major engine failure, if it were a car I am sure everyone would be demanding repair under warranty. I realize it isn't a car, but it is still under warranty.
I have the yamaha service manuals. I can't find anything in there that speaks to compression readings or leak down tests. Is there something in the manual that I am missing that will back up what I am saying?
Also, I had my sled in the dealer last year for what I thought excessive fuel consumption. Rather than try to help me fix it they set out to prove to me that the fuel mileage was acceptable. They put exactly one gallon of fuel in it and drove it until it quit. Told me they got 15 miles out of it. I very typically get 9-10 MPG with it. The explained that off as my riding style.
Do the condition of my cylinders speak to excessive fuel consumption? I would certainly think they do based on the posts I have read about lost performance. I would think economy and performance go hand in hand.
I am again getting a tad disheartened but will get over it and get the thing put back together. Sure hope we have a good snow year or I may give up the snowmobile habit.
I have also picked up that the general consensus is to go to a full synthetic oil. Amsoil, Klotz or whatever brand, but a full synthetic. Use the few gallons of yamalube I have left in the Vmax that I also ride.
Again, thanks for the replies. I feel like I have been completely schooled on at least one aspect of the two strokes. I do kind of feel like I have some information overload going on but over the next few days I am sure I will get it all sorted out.
The information on the Brush Research Manufacturing site was interesting. What troubled me is it kind of reminded me of the information Slick 50 used to publish. I will leave that alone as I don't see me doing it anyway. I don't think I will re ring my motor, I think I will have someone else do it.
SXR700- you asked about a picture that showed the uncleaned tops of the cylinders;
Not sure that one shows what your looking for, but it is one of the best I have of the piston tops.
Now, most importantly, do I have a case to have my rings replaced under warranty? Like I mentioned earlier I have a couple months left on my warranty and 5000 miles on my sled. I have spoken briefly with my dealer about it and essentially he told me that if it didn't fail the compression check they can't cover it.
My sled has been dealer maintained and I have ran the recommended oil in it every tank. (YAMALUBE) I have also bought all my oil from the same dealer. My point is, I maintained the snowmobile as per the manufacturer and dealer recommendations. Now I have a major engine failure, if it were a car I am sure everyone would be demanding repair under warranty. I realize it isn't a car, but it is still under warranty.
I have the yamaha service manuals. I can't find anything in there that speaks to compression readings or leak down tests. Is there something in the manual that I am missing that will back up what I am saying?
Also, I had my sled in the dealer last year for what I thought excessive fuel consumption. Rather than try to help me fix it they set out to prove to me that the fuel mileage was acceptable. They put exactly one gallon of fuel in it and drove it until it quit. Told me they got 15 miles out of it. I very typically get 9-10 MPG with it. The explained that off as my riding style.
Do the condition of my cylinders speak to excessive fuel consumption? I would certainly think they do based on the posts I have read about lost performance. I would think economy and performance go hand in hand.
I am again getting a tad disheartened but will get over it and get the thing put back together. Sure hope we have a good snow year or I may give up the snowmobile habit.
I have also picked up that the general consensus is to go to a full synthetic oil. Amsoil, Klotz or whatever brand, but a full synthetic. Use the few gallons of yamalube I have left in the Vmax that I also ride.
Again, thanks for the replies. I feel like I have been completely schooled on at least one aspect of the two strokes. I do kind of feel like I have some information overload going on but over the next few days I am sure I will get it all sorted out.
daman
New member
I would say no J/T, your sled is too old and they would just say it's "normal
wear and tear", you have a easy fix there, you can do it, just pull the pistons out mic them to check spec and if there within just re-ring 'em, with the help of the members here you could do it and save you $$..
wear and tear", you have a easy fix there, you can do it, just pull the pistons out mic them to check spec and if there within just re-ring 'em, with the help of the members here you could do it and save you $$..
Dont sweat it, its no big deal.
Jeeptherapy, I am just reading your post and I think by the sounds of it you sound a little perplexed as to the sled needing just rings. Its not a "major engine failure" in my book, just routine maitenance on a 2 stroke engine. I cant recall all the post I have made about rings and pistons in a 2 stroke engine, they are the heart of the engine and they are the wearable item inside, the rest of the parts,cranks,bearings, niasil plating on cylinders are all in for the long haul, the rings and pistons take all the abuse. The rings and pistons are basicly the camshaft,valves, etc in a 2 stroke and the better you can keep the piston stable in the bore and better you can seal off the gasses from contaminating the fresh intake charge the more power the engine can make on a regular basis.
If you lived close you could have brought that sled over and in a hour and a few liquid beverages we could have reringed it. Its a very simple job as far as you have the engine taken down now. The cylinders have a taper built in the bottom and all you have to do is posistion the ring on the piston ring stops and it will slip right back up into the cylinder. See if there is another member from here who could stop over and guide you some, 4 more bolts and you can have new rings in it and have a fresh engine again. The dealer wont be of any help as with 5000 miles it needs rings based off a 2 stroke engine maintenance schedule anyways.
Jeeptherapy, I am just reading your post and I think by the sounds of it you sound a little perplexed as to the sled needing just rings. Its not a "major engine failure" in my book, just routine maitenance on a 2 stroke engine. I cant recall all the post I have made about rings and pistons in a 2 stroke engine, they are the heart of the engine and they are the wearable item inside, the rest of the parts,cranks,bearings, niasil plating on cylinders are all in for the long haul, the rings and pistons take all the abuse. The rings and pistons are basicly the camshaft,valves, etc in a 2 stroke and the better you can keep the piston stable in the bore and better you can seal off the gasses from contaminating the fresh intake charge the more power the engine can make on a regular basis.
If you lived close you could have brought that sled over and in a hour and a few liquid beverages we could have reringed it. Its a very simple job as far as you have the engine taken down now. The cylinders have a taper built in the bottom and all you have to do is posistion the ring on the piston ring stops and it will slip right back up into the cylinder. See if there is another member from here who could stop over and guide you some, 4 more bolts and you can have new rings in it and have a fresh engine again. The dealer wont be of any help as with 5000 miles it needs rings based off a 2 stroke engine maintenance schedule anyways.
Geez. Some poor guy trying to make a buck as a reseller and you go all PHD on his ***. That's fair. You should call Amsoil and offer training courses to interested sales reps, lol. Bashing the product cause some guy sells it as a hobbie and doesn't know jack is unfounded. That's like saying I don't like Klotz cause it take two extra revolutions to get the cap off the bottle.nosboy said:
JeepTherapy
New member
mrviper700 said:
Thanks again for the replies...
I actually can recall all of the posts you have made on the 2 stroke piston rings. I have searched through and read them all in the last couple days.
I wish I did live close, if nothing else just to get first hand information on what I am doing. Most of my information is coming from my dealer and what I have read here.
Given that the rings are that easy to install I am thinking I should "just do it!" I have read the procedure and was afraid of the "simply slide the cylinder over the pistons and rings". That sounded like it should be harder than that. Now I understand that statement.
I spoke to my dealer today. They have offered to rering my sled just to keep good customer relations. I didn't go all postal on them or anything, just asked some questions based on the condition of my cylinders. Geez, now I feel guilty...
xsivhp
Active member
someone mentioned buying 2 cases of amsoil - my viper goes about 200 miles on a quart of oil - you should be able to run about 6400 miles on that oil!
xsivhp said:
We have two sleds, Or we will when my other 04 Viper S arrives. It should be here beginning of Nov. Also i am now an Amsoil dealer and will be selling it out of my shop. I'll hopefully be ordering a lot more.
sxr_700
New member
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2004
- Messages
- 85
JT, that piston wash looks ok. I'd rering it, its simple. I'm going over everything on my sled this year and hoping to gain my topend speed that disapeared. Just cleaning my clutches right now. Nobody hijacked this sled. All of the info was beneficial as to re-ringing a viper, as to what oils to use, whats a good hone etc etc.
JeepTherapy
New member
sxr 700 My goals were slightly different than yours. I kind of wanted a custom sled. Something that I put together myself and was somewhat unique. I am not a big speed rider. In fact, I won't even hold my sled wide open all the way across a lake. Just goes to fast and too many things could go wrong. I haven't ever raced it. I am a little curious if I am just too easy on it.
I pulled my head to upgrade to a Peak Performance Billet head. I am also adding a set of Bender pipes, some heal clickers, a 136 track and tunnel extension. I understand too that I will also have to rejet the carbs and haven't decided if I am going to do Benders air box modification. I wasn't expecting to find problems when I pulled my head off. Now I know better.
Had I known before I started what I know now I would have simply planned on doing rings while I had it all apart. I think the biggest problem I had is it caught me completely by surprise. I do however think the hardest part so far has been draining the coolant out of the thing. I just don't like to deal with the mess. Everything else has been pretty straight forward with all of the help I have gotten from everyone here. I am feeling pretty confident that I can install the rings and cylinders myself. I do however plan on having someone else do the honing on them. That is also subject to change.
My next fears are the crank seals. I don't really know what to look for on them. I have read a few posts where that sounds like the next thing to go. I don't want to do a bunch of work on the top end and then have a crank seal or something else in the bottom end go and destroy all my efforts to date.
Well to be perfectly honest I have some fears about getting the jetting set up right but that seems pretty straight up. Cautious trial and error with good records and careful inspection between test runs... Learned how to test like that in 7th grade science class.
I pulled my head to upgrade to a Peak Performance Billet head. I am also adding a set of Bender pipes, some heal clickers, a 136 track and tunnel extension. I understand too that I will also have to rejet the carbs and haven't decided if I am going to do Benders air box modification. I wasn't expecting to find problems when I pulled my head off. Now I know better.
Had I known before I started what I know now I would have simply planned on doing rings while I had it all apart. I think the biggest problem I had is it caught me completely by surprise. I do however think the hardest part so far has been draining the coolant out of the thing. I just don't like to deal with the mess. Everything else has been pretty straight forward with all of the help I have gotten from everyone here. I am feeling pretty confident that I can install the rings and cylinders myself. I do however plan on having someone else do the honing on them. That is also subject to change.
My next fears are the crank seals. I don't really know what to look for on them. I have read a few posts where that sounds like the next thing to go. I don't want to do a bunch of work on the top end and then have a crank seal or something else in the bottom end go and destroy all my efforts to date.
Well to be perfectly honest I have some fears about getting the jetting set up right but that seems pretty straight up. Cautious trial and error with good records and careful inspection between test runs... Learned how to test like that in 7th grade science class.