redsnake3
New member
what kinda damage can occur from the acetone in the fuel? i read that it can hurt the engine sometimes. watched this video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/524517/double_your_gas_mileage_2x/
i know some off the stuff is just maintenance and such, but that is a serious fuel savings claim. i would love to here your opinion on this stuff NOSBOY, but keep it easy on the caps lock. lol . that button must almost be worn off of your keyboard.
i know some off the stuff is just maintenance and such, but that is a serious fuel savings claim. i would love to here your opinion on this stuff NOSBOY, but keep it easy on the caps lock. lol . that button must almost be worn off of your keyboard.
yammiman
Member
They tested this theory on Mythbusters last year and they showed that it had no effect!!
acetone, toulene, and such chemicals are also highly TOXIC thru the exhaust vapor!!
yammiman
Member
I wouldn't be afraid of toluene - it is a component of gasoline anyway - some race fuels have as much as 25% toluene - formula 1 turbo race cars back in the 80's ran 84% toluene fuel - we use to use it "back in the day" for octane increase in our hot rods with good success - it is also non water solubile - acetone is more in the category of ethynol - it absorbs water - I think the guys video was for entertainment purposes only!!
TJ500
Member
Acetone is very hard on some plastics....polystyrene, polycarbonate and some types of polypropylene, for example...
be careful... some fuel lines/components meant for gasoline may not be suitable for acetone...
be careful... some fuel lines/components meant for gasoline may not be suitable for acetone...
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mustangzrule
New member
**edit - just watched the video**
There is NO WAY IN HECK he took a car from 24-34 MPG with those changes unless his air filter was plugged with molasses, he was using watered down gas before, and had the plug wired crossed before he changed them. He also probably had his tires under-inflated too. I think he is exaggerating quite a bit.
Home depot sells Acetone, try his 2oz/gallon and tell us what YOUR results are. I doubt you see more than 5% increase.
Try this video for what he is full of...
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/765251/fire_fart_funny/
**end edit **
Doesn't acetone cost like $9 per gallon? I would hope you aren't trying to save $$$ by using it. At that price you would have to triple your mileage to break even.
And yes acetone is extremely rough on plastics, paints, rubber, vinyl. It will melt almost any plastic that is not thermally set. Nasty stuff.
Toluene is probably in the same price range, and is a ring compound, so byproducts have been linked to cancer. I don't sit and sniff my exhaust, though.
Has anyone considered the possibility of using diesel or kerosene to improve mileage? You would have to jet your carbs way down, but I think even the FI machines would be able to see mileage increases this way. I have not researched this at all, but throw it out as an idea.
There is NO WAY IN HECK he took a car from 24-34 MPG with those changes unless his air filter was plugged with molasses, he was using watered down gas before, and had the plug wired crossed before he changed them. He also probably had his tires under-inflated too. I think he is exaggerating quite a bit.
Home depot sells Acetone, try his 2oz/gallon and tell us what YOUR results are. I doubt you see more than 5% increase.
Try this video for what he is full of...
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/765251/fire_fart_funny/
**end edit **
Doesn't acetone cost like $9 per gallon? I would hope you aren't trying to save $$$ by using it. At that price you would have to triple your mileage to break even.
And yes acetone is extremely rough on plastics, paints, rubber, vinyl. It will melt almost any plastic that is not thermally set. Nasty stuff.
Toluene is probably in the same price range, and is a ring compound, so byproducts have been linked to cancer. I don't sit and sniff my exhaust, though.
Has anyone considered the possibility of using diesel or kerosene to improve mileage? You would have to jet your carbs way down, but I think even the FI machines would be able to see mileage increases this way. I have not researched this at all, but throw it out as an idea.
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You may not sit and sniff the exhaust but how about anyone else near you when your running toxic additives in your fuel?? Ya know when its in a enclosed trailer, at the gas station, letting it warm up in the mornings in the middle of the pack of sleds, lets not be stupid here, a little common sense goes along ways. There really isnt any reason to run this stuff in a trail sled anyhow, raising your octane wont give you better gas mpg or performance, if your engine doesnt need the octane your only making LESS power from higher octane not more. I dont, am I am sure many others dont need to get cancer, or some other form of disease or whatever from some joe schmo thinking hes makin his sled faster and adding toxic chemicals playing fuel chemist for fun, I dont really think this is a good thing to be posting for public use, this stuff can be dangerous!
read my article on MOTHBALLS and you will probably understand what goes on. HCI (hydrochloric acid) is VERY DANGEROUS and USUALLY eats through everything... Acetone burned throughout the combustion process creates HCI and ,,like Mrviper700 said,,, He really don't think it's a good thing to be posting for public use!!!! IT CAN BE DANGEROUS!!!! There have been NUMEROUS testing to verify this!!! Benzene is less dangerous and Methyl Ethyl Ketone (MEK) will KILL you immediately if not sooner!!!!(just kidding)!!! MEK is some NASTY stuff!!! KEEP AWAY!!!!!
mustangzrule
New member
I agree that playing backyard chemist is dangerous. I have experience in the form of a trip to the local burn center. Please, though, let's only post facts about what we know.
Acetone is a essentially a hydrocarbon, containing only Hydrogen, Carbon, and a single Oxygen. HCl contains Chlorine, and cannot be made without starting with another compound containing chlorine. Air (the other combustion component) is generally made of nitrogen, oxygen, and some trace elements.
Burning hydrocarbons produces water, carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, and various forms of partially burned hydrocarbons. The danger is in the carbon monoxide and the toxic forms of partially burnt hydrocarbons.
Oh, and the danger of getting this stuff in the eyes, or burning the crap outta yourself, or getting seriously stoned from the vapors and falling on a sharp object. For the effort, gas is still cheaper than a medical copay. Just pump and go. More time=more fun.
My $.02 (all I have left after taxes)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetone
Acetone is a essentially a hydrocarbon, containing only Hydrogen, Carbon, and a single Oxygen. HCl contains Chlorine, and cannot be made without starting with another compound containing chlorine. Air (the other combustion component) is generally made of nitrogen, oxygen, and some trace elements.
Burning hydrocarbons produces water, carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, and various forms of partially burned hydrocarbons. The danger is in the carbon monoxide and the toxic forms of partially burnt hydrocarbons.
Oh, and the danger of getting this stuff in the eyes, or burning the crap outta yourself, or getting seriously stoned from the vapors and falling on a sharp object. For the effort, gas is still cheaper than a medical copay. Just pump and go. More time=more fun.
My $.02 (all I have left after taxes)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetone
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and what do you think happens when TWO STROKE OIL (YAMALUBE) mixes with acetone.. Theres your chlorine compound AFTER combustion!!!!! I didn't JUST FALL OFF the turnip truck!!!!
HOW TOLUENE ENTERS AND AFFECTS
YOUR BODY
Toluene enters your body when it evaporates into the air you breathe. Toluene can also be absorbed through your skin, especially with lengthy skin contact.
Overexposure to toluene mainly affects the central nervous system (the brain), causing headache, nausea, dizziness, clumsiness, drowsiness, and other effects like those of drunkenness. Other symptoms can also occur, as described below.
Nervous System: Toluene, like most organic solvents, can affect your brain the same way drinking alcohol does. Drinking alcohol within a few hours of exposure increases these effects and makes them last longer, because the effects of alcohol and other organic solvents on the brain add together. The symptoms of short-term overexposure usually clear up within hours after exposure stops. Effects occur more quickly and become more noticeable and serious as the level and time of exposure increase. These symptoms can increase your chances of having accidents.
The table below lists exposure levels at which various effects of toluene are likely to appear. The table gives exposure levels in "ppm" ("parts per million" - the number of parts of toluene in each million parts of air).
Most experts believe that repeated, frequent overexposure to organic solvents over months or years can have long-lasting and possibly permanent effects on the nervous system. The symptoms of these long-term effects include fatigue, sleeplessness, poor coordination, difficulty in concentrating, loss of short-term memory, and personality changes such as depression, anxiety, and irritability. We do not know at what exposure levels these effects occur, and the effects have not been studied in workers exposed only to toluene.
Nervous Systems Effects of Toluene
Level Effects of 8-Hour Average Exposure
100 ppm headache, dizziness, drowsiness, fatigue
200 ppm nausea, weakness, poor coordination, numbness,
tingling,
600 ppm sleepiness, lack of emotional control, staggering
800 ppm severe nervousness, muscular fatigue, insomnia
which lasts for days
>10,000 ppm loss of consciousness, death
Skin: Toluene, like other organic solvents, can dissolve your skin's natural protective oils. Frequent or prolonged skin contact can cause irritation and dermatitis (skin rash), with dryness, redness, flaking, and cracking of the skin. Toluene penetrates most ordinary clothing (see "Personal Protective Equipment," page 4) and can get trapped in gloves and boots. Such exposure can cause burns and blistering.
Eyes, Nose, and Throat: Toluene in the air can irritate your eyes, nose, and throat. Liquid toluene splashed in the eye can sting, and may slightly damage the surface of the eye, but the eye usually heals within a few days.
Hearing: One study suggested that toluene, and possibly other organic solvents, may be able to cause hearing loss.
Lungs: Exposure to toluene at high levels can irritate the lungs, causing chest pain and shortness of breath. Extreme overexposure (for example, in an enclosed or confined space) can cause pulmonary edema, a potentially life-threatening condition in which the lungs fill with fluid. However, there is no evidence that repeated, low-level exposure has any long-term effects on the lung.
Liver and Kidneys: At very high levels of exposure - such as might occur in an enclosed space or during a spill - toluene can injure the liver and kidneys. This is extremely unlikely to occur without substantial effects on the nervous system first. Generally, such liver or kidney damage is not permanent.
Cancer: In a U.S. National Toxicology Program test, rats and mice exposed to high levels of toluene in the air throughout most of their lives did not show any sign of increased cancer rates. There is no good reason to believe that toluene causes cancer. However, toluene is often contaminated with small amounts of benzene, which is a known cause of leukemia and other cancers. In a workplace where toluene is used, a proper health and safety evaluation should consider the possibility of benzene exposure.
Genetic Changes: Most studies show that toluene does not easily damage the genes or chromosomes, although at least one study found minor effects among workers exposed to high concentrations for 10-20 years.
Reproductive System: Toluene's effects on the reproductive system have not been thoroughly studied
benzine
From: The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition | Date: 2007
Print Digg del.icio.us
benzine , colorless, highly flammable liquid. It is used as a cleaning agent because it is a solvent for organic substances such as fats, oils, and resins and is also used in the preparation of certain dyes and paints. Benzine is a mixture of hydrocarbons, chiefly alkanes such as pentane and hexane. It is obtained by the fractional distillation of petroleum .
so theres your mixture togehter = cancer causing and then some additives..........
YOUR BODY
Toluene enters your body when it evaporates into the air you breathe. Toluene can also be absorbed through your skin, especially with lengthy skin contact.
Overexposure to toluene mainly affects the central nervous system (the brain), causing headache, nausea, dizziness, clumsiness, drowsiness, and other effects like those of drunkenness. Other symptoms can also occur, as described below.
Nervous System: Toluene, like most organic solvents, can affect your brain the same way drinking alcohol does. Drinking alcohol within a few hours of exposure increases these effects and makes them last longer, because the effects of alcohol and other organic solvents on the brain add together. The symptoms of short-term overexposure usually clear up within hours after exposure stops. Effects occur more quickly and become more noticeable and serious as the level and time of exposure increase. These symptoms can increase your chances of having accidents.
The table below lists exposure levels at which various effects of toluene are likely to appear. The table gives exposure levels in "ppm" ("parts per million" - the number of parts of toluene in each million parts of air).
Most experts believe that repeated, frequent overexposure to organic solvents over months or years can have long-lasting and possibly permanent effects on the nervous system. The symptoms of these long-term effects include fatigue, sleeplessness, poor coordination, difficulty in concentrating, loss of short-term memory, and personality changes such as depression, anxiety, and irritability. We do not know at what exposure levels these effects occur, and the effects have not been studied in workers exposed only to toluene.
Nervous Systems Effects of Toluene
Level Effects of 8-Hour Average Exposure
100 ppm headache, dizziness, drowsiness, fatigue
200 ppm nausea, weakness, poor coordination, numbness,
tingling,
600 ppm sleepiness, lack of emotional control, staggering
800 ppm severe nervousness, muscular fatigue, insomnia
which lasts for days
>10,000 ppm loss of consciousness, death
Skin: Toluene, like other organic solvents, can dissolve your skin's natural protective oils. Frequent or prolonged skin contact can cause irritation and dermatitis (skin rash), with dryness, redness, flaking, and cracking of the skin. Toluene penetrates most ordinary clothing (see "Personal Protective Equipment," page 4) and can get trapped in gloves and boots. Such exposure can cause burns and blistering.
Eyes, Nose, and Throat: Toluene in the air can irritate your eyes, nose, and throat. Liquid toluene splashed in the eye can sting, and may slightly damage the surface of the eye, but the eye usually heals within a few days.
Hearing: One study suggested that toluene, and possibly other organic solvents, may be able to cause hearing loss.
Lungs: Exposure to toluene at high levels can irritate the lungs, causing chest pain and shortness of breath. Extreme overexposure (for example, in an enclosed or confined space) can cause pulmonary edema, a potentially life-threatening condition in which the lungs fill with fluid. However, there is no evidence that repeated, low-level exposure has any long-term effects on the lung.
Liver and Kidneys: At very high levels of exposure - such as might occur in an enclosed space or during a spill - toluene can injure the liver and kidneys. This is extremely unlikely to occur without substantial effects on the nervous system first. Generally, such liver or kidney damage is not permanent.
Cancer: In a U.S. National Toxicology Program test, rats and mice exposed to high levels of toluene in the air throughout most of their lives did not show any sign of increased cancer rates. There is no good reason to believe that toluene causes cancer. However, toluene is often contaminated with small amounts of benzene, which is a known cause of leukemia and other cancers. In a workplace where toluene is used, a proper health and safety evaluation should consider the possibility of benzene exposure.
Genetic Changes: Most studies show that toluene does not easily damage the genes or chromosomes, although at least one study found minor effects among workers exposed to high concentrations for 10-20 years.
Reproductive System: Toluene's effects on the reproductive system have not been thoroughly studied
benzine
From: The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition | Date: 2007
Print Digg del.icio.us
benzine , colorless, highly flammable liquid. It is used as a cleaning agent because it is a solvent for organic substances such as fats, oils, and resins and is also used in the preparation of certain dyes and paints. Benzine is a mixture of hydrocarbons, chiefly alkanes such as pentane and hexane. It is obtained by the fractional distillation of petroleum .
so theres your mixture togehter = cancer causing and then some additives..........
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redsnake3 said:
My opinion, after watching the video,,,is,,,, SMOKE ANOTHER JOINT,,, BUDDY!!!!
it REALLY doesn't work that way!!!
Great Post,,, Don!!!!!
redsnake3
New member
I really didnt believe that it would increase fuel mileage any great amount but i did not know that the stuff was so toxic, thanks alot guys.
yammiman
Member
Nice post Don, but I don't think anyone was debating the fact that toluene at high blood levels can cause sikness or death - most substances known to man can do that - including alcohol - the only point was that toluene is already in todays fuels and whether it was or not you would die from too much exposure to exhaust fumes also!! 
your right some, key word "some" toulene is in normal gasoline but when mixed at higher levels with acetone or benzene which is in some fuels already, it becomes a toxic combo when put into the air y your exhaust system!! This site is the wrong place for people to be telling people with absolutely no chemist backgrounds to mix fuels, I sure as heck dont want to ride behind you or anyone else with this stuff in your tank because you think your gonna gain 5hp... your putting others at risk, thats why I posted that information.
EDIT:I guess I should add after reading my wording I am not yelling at anyone in paticular I just dont think this is very good information to post on a public forum for someone to go try, this entire post/thread should go to the dog pile before some kid or someone of less knowing goes and messes with stuff they dont know how it works and gets hurt or hurts someone else in doing so.
EDIT:I guess I should add after reading my wording I am not yelling at anyone in paticular I just dont think this is very good information to post on a public forum for someone to go try, this entire post/thread should go to the dog pile before some kid or someone of less knowing goes and messes with stuff they dont know how it works and gets hurt or hurts someone else in doing so.
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yammiman
Member
Not looking for a pi**ing match here, but I also agree "some" - I cannot find any of todays domestic fuels that contain acetone primarily because of its corrosive nature - benzene comes from toluene from hydrodealkylation - exhaust fumes contain acetone from the burning process, the human body gives off acetone, so does decomposing vegetation and forest fires- I don't think exhaust fumes are any more deadly with these components added
That being said, I agree that this is not something someone should be experimenting with - unfortunately this theory has been around awhile and is all over the internet - I think that is why Mythbusters did their experiment on it - I guess if someone decides to stay away from it by reading this post, some good would have come from it!!
That being said, I agree that this is not something someone should be experimenting with - unfortunately this theory has been around awhile and is all over the internet - I think that is why Mythbusters did their experiment on it - I guess if someone decides to stay away from it by reading this post, some good would have come from it!!
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years ago, and maybe still, didnt they add mtb to fuel and in hot climates it becomes a cancer causing agent? is that still going on?
yammiman
Member
That was MTBE and it is slowly being done away with - it was used as an oxygenator - originally replaced lead - now it is being replaced with ethanol - very controversal IMHO - World Health Organization does not classify it as a carcinogen - however, domestic studies have tried to say it is - all started in California and spread throughout the country by the ethanol people - and that is all I'm going to say about that!!