My Viper doesn't run in deep snow, packed snow any snow!!!
Please help....
What should I look up on the sled? It'll only dig straight down not gaining any speed...
So I would be happy if someone out there could tell me how to adjust the sled for optimal snowdriving/hillclimbing. Every nut, spring, shocks location...
Sorry if I spell bad but I'm from Sweden....
Please help....
What should I look up on the sled? It'll only dig straight down not gaining any speed...
So I would be happy if someone out there could tell me how to adjust the sled for optimal snowdriving/hillclimbing. Every nut, spring, shocks location...
Sorry if I spell bad but I'm from Sweden....
What are the snow conditions?
It's the same in all snowconditions... Packed, soft... I've even get stucked on a lake with very packed snow... It's like the skis are glued to the snow, and the track digs right down...
When we play around in mountains with rather packed snow the other sleds hardly makes trackmarks in the snow and my digs several feet deep ditch, ends up getting stucked with the nose straight up and the rear end opposite direction...
On trails it's like a shorttrack with useless track. No grip at all...
Tried to adjust according to manual but not getting better. Tried to adjust after other Viper Mtn that runs in snow but no good either...
It's a standard Viper, electric start and reverse and mountain skis (wide than standard)
When we play around in mountains with rather packed snow the other sleds hardly makes trackmarks in the snow and my digs several feet deep ditch, ends up getting stucked with the nose straight up and the rear end opposite direction...
On trails it's like a shorttrack with useless track. No grip at all...
Tried to adjust according to manual but not getting better. Tried to adjust after other Viper Mtn that runs in snow but no good either...
It's a standard Viper, electric start and reverse and mountain skis (wide than standard)
..SNAKEBIT..
VIP Member
parked on cement floor whats the track like on the floor?
mod-it
Member
Ok, I'm assuming that the clutching and jetting is on. You might also make sure that the track isn't waaaay to tight.
It sounds like the pre-load (this is what I have always called it, anyway) is set the opposite of what you want. A friend of mine set his one time this way. His thought was if the track was pushing down onto the snow really hard, he would get better traction. It was directly the opposite. With the suspension shoving the track down as hard as he could set it, when he got off the trail he just trenched really bad and got stuck. In comparison, my sled was leaving a trench about one foot deep, and his was leaving one about three feet deep or better. You could use it for shelter and stay the night, lol. I have never adjusted mine, I told the dealer I was going to be mainly boon docking and hill climbing and he set it up. I'm sure someone on here can explain it in detail for you. I would be very willing to bet that a beginner/novice owned the sled before you, and it is set up to keep the skis on the ground at all times (easy trail riding).
I would also check the limiter straps, they're probably set pretty tight also. I run mine as loose as they will go. It sucks on the trail, but packs the skis nicely off the trail.
It sounds like the pre-load (this is what I have always called it, anyway) is set the opposite of what you want. A friend of mine set his one time this way. His thought was if the track was pushing down onto the snow really hard, he would get better traction. It was directly the opposite. With the suspension shoving the track down as hard as he could set it, when he got off the trail he just trenched really bad and got stuck. In comparison, my sled was leaving a trench about one foot deep, and his was leaving one about three feet deep or better. You could use it for shelter and stay the night, lol. I have never adjusted mine, I told the dealer I was going to be mainly boon docking and hill climbing and he set it up. I'm sure someone on here can explain it in detail for you. I would be very willing to bet that a beginner/novice owned the sled before you, and it is set up to keep the skis on the ground at all times (easy trail riding).
I would also check the limiter straps, they're probably set pretty tight also. I run mine as loose as they will go. It sucks on the trail, but packs the skis nicely off the trail.
mountain_mod_viper
New member
I like the shocks in the rear suspension set as soft as possible, especially the front shock. That way, the track can float with the terrain, instead of pushing down through it. Then play with the limiter straps, but I think they need to be more out than in if that makes sense.
Like mountain mod viper said, soften up the front spring in the rear skid. This will allow the front of the skid to compress more, for an improved approach angle. This should reduce the trenching effect.
If you decide to change the track, a 16" wide track will make a HUGE difference! It will fit with some triming to the chain case nuts and rear drop brackets. (Or thinner aftermarket rear drop brackets.
If you decide to change the track, a 16" wide track will make a HUGE difference! It will fit with some triming to the chain case nuts and rear drop brackets. (Or thinner aftermarket rear drop brackets.
Where do most of you guys set the pre-load on the rear of rear shock?
Have mine now in the middle position.
Are you saying to go to the soft setting? Have shocks at softest or next too and front straps all the way out and MP straps set lose.
Have mine now in the middle position.
Are you saying to go to the soft setting? Have shocks at softest or next too and front straps all the way out and MP straps set lose.
Hi again!
Thanks for all the answers, been busy a couple of days. I've purchased a Towing Car for the winter (Chevrolet Silverado Ext Pick-up 6,2 diesel 4x4)
Back to the sled...
I've adjusted the limiter straps (?) in the front of the skid, they were set at maximum lenght wich would get the skid to "fall down" a lot in soft snow, and cause a "bad" approachangle. I've shortened those. The front shock has been on softest all the time and rear shock about middle. Have'nt had oppurtunity to test the new setting yet but will reply with results...
Last winter I adjusted my sled like a friends that runs well in powder but mine didn't!! The only thing I don't remember if we checked is those straps in front...
mod-it: What to do meen by "track to tight" Is't the tension you're thinking about? Will check that but how does that perform on powderracing? Just curiuos?
What about the transfer rods? Know that are treads but will ask in "my" thread. Heard that change place and put the thick "up" and thin "down" (closest to bolt) would let the skid compress more and result in skis up in the air, is that right?
Thanks for all the answers, been busy a couple of days. I've purchased a Towing Car for the winter (Chevrolet Silverado Ext Pick-up 6,2 diesel 4x4)
Back to the sled...
I've adjusted the limiter straps (?) in the front of the skid, they were set at maximum lenght wich would get the skid to "fall down" a lot in soft snow, and cause a "bad" approachangle. I've shortened those. The front shock has been on softest all the time and rear shock about middle. Have'nt had oppurtunity to test the new setting yet but will reply with results...
Last winter I adjusted my sled like a friends that runs well in powder but mine didn't!! The only thing I don't remember if we checked is those straps in front...
mod-it: What to do meen by "track to tight" Is't the tension you're thinking about? Will check that but how does that perform on powderracing? Just curiuos?
What about the transfer rods? Know that are treads but will ask in "my" thread. Heard that change place and put the thick "up" and thin "down" (closest to bolt) would let the skid compress more and result in skis up in the air, is that right?
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mod-it
Member
By the track being to tight, I meant that if it was tightened up too much it could be robbing a ton of HP. I run mine as loose as I can get away with without it ratcheting.
Another thing to check would be the chain case tension. If it is too tight it can steal lots of HP also. Chain case tension is easy to check. Simply loosen the nut, then adjust the bolt to finger tight, and then tighten the nut back up (as per the manual).
On the suspension, like I said, I have never adjusted it. It really sounds like your sled is set with the front really low and the back really high. This is putting too much weight forward on the skis. In my mind (not saying much, lol), the front shocks should be set as high as possible and the rear should be set soft. You should set it exactly the opposite of what it was set at when you went out and it trenched really bad. You said the front has been on the softest, and the back at about the middle. I would adjust the front to a pretty hard setting, and the back to a soft setting.
On the limiter straps, longer is what you want. This allows the sled to transfer its weight to the back. If you run them shorter, it won't let it transfer as much weight back, and thus keep more weight on the skis (you said it was like the skis were glued to the ground). Since you said they were set as long as possible already, I would say they aren't the problem. I would move them back to as long as possible and work on getting the suspension correct.
Another thing to check would be the chain case tension. If it is too tight it can steal lots of HP also. Chain case tension is easy to check. Simply loosen the nut, then adjust the bolt to finger tight, and then tighten the nut back up (as per the manual).
On the suspension, like I said, I have never adjusted it. It really sounds like your sled is set with the front really low and the back really high. This is putting too much weight forward on the skis. In my mind (not saying much, lol), the front shocks should be set as high as possible and the rear should be set soft. You should set it exactly the opposite of what it was set at when you went out and it trenched really bad. You said the front has been on the softest, and the back at about the middle. I would adjust the front to a pretty hard setting, and the back to a soft setting.
On the limiter straps, longer is what you want. This allows the sled to transfer its weight to the back. If you run them shorter, it won't let it transfer as much weight back, and thus keep more weight on the skis (you said it was like the skis were glued to the ground). Since you said they were set as long as possible already, I would say they aren't the problem. I would move them back to as long as possible and work on getting the suspension correct.
Now i'm confused...
Mtnviper and mountain_mod_viper say that the front shock on soft and limiterstraps out max.
Mod-it says front shock hard and limiterstraps out.
I'm thinking back in the days (before mountainsleds) if you let the straps out max you had hell of pressure on the track causing high lifts and girls happy
. But if you go "offroad" you would act like a chainsaw in the snow. Short straps would'nt get you any pretty girls but in snow the sled went a lot better... Is'nt thay right???
Now the suggestion is to loosen the straps to get more weight back to sled??? Am I a stupid Swedish boy or are my mind messed up?!
If the straps are long(out) the front of skid would be able to "fall down" in soft snow, causing bad angle in front=trenching.... Or? I get the point to have front shock in skid soft to allow the skid to be pressed up again but if the straps are shorter the skid never will fall down... Maybe I'm to tired to think clear but hoping to hear your thoughts...
Mtnviper and mountain_mod_viper say that the front shock on soft and limiterstraps out max.
Mod-it says front shock hard and limiterstraps out.
I'm thinking back in the days (before mountainsleds) if you let the straps out max you had hell of pressure on the track causing high lifts and girls happy
. But if you go "offroad" you would act like a chainsaw in the snow. Short straps would'nt get you any pretty girls but in snow the sled went a lot better... Is'nt thay right???Now the suggestion is to loosen the straps to get more weight back to sled??? Am I a stupid Swedish boy or are my mind messed up?!
If the straps are long(out) the front of skid would be able to "fall down" in soft snow, causing bad angle in front=trenching.... Or? I get the point to have front shock in skid soft to allow the skid to be pressed up again but if the straps are shorter the skid never will fall down... Maybe I'm to tired to think clear but hoping to hear your thoughts...
Adjustment of the limiter straps depends on snow conditions. In deep soft powder, its usaully best to pull them up a bit. For better approach angle. Think of it as boat planing though water, a sled behaves somewhat the same way in soft deep powder. You want to "trim" the sled out by having the track angle close to same angle as how the skis are "planing" through the deep snow.
If the snow is firm, you can let the limiter straps out, and stiff'en up the center shock spring. Because the snow is set up, you can take advantage of this by running more transfer. Remember that more transfer is more downward force of the track on to the snow surface. In firm snow, the sled will hook up. In soft snow, it will trench.
If the snow is firm, you can let the limiter straps out, and stiff'en up the center shock spring. Because the snow is set up, you can take advantage of this by running more transfer. Remember that more transfer is more downward force of the track on to the snow surface. In firm snow, the sled will hook up. In soft snow, it will trench.
OK then we agree... So the first step I've already done is to "raise" the skid with the limiterstraps... Unfortunatly we don't have so much snow yet so I can testdrive but maybe I'll drive later this week and report the changes...
M-Max
New member
check your w arm in the rear suspension. Something just does not sound right. It sounds like something is broken. You should not be able to trench on a packed lake. I ride a MM 700 I have always rode with the limiters all the way out. Right now they are in about 3/4" but I now have MPI transfer straps instead of transfer rods.
I would suggest resetting the entire rear skid to factory settings and adjust from there.
I don't know what shipping to you would be, but a can copy my proaction suspension video and mail it to you. Maybe cheaper if I burned it to DVD.
I would suggest resetting the entire rear skid to factory settings and adjust from there.
I don't know what shipping to you would be, but a can copy my proaction suspension video and mail it to you. Maybe cheaper if I burned it to DVD.
mod-it
Member
If you tighten your limiter straps, all your going to do is keep even more weight on the skis. When they are all the way out, it will transfer more weight to the track. I don't think the limiter straps have anything to do with your problem. You said that it feels like the skis are glued to the ground, and the track spins alot on hard pack like it is a short track. This is because you have so much weight forward on the skis. If the rear suspension is cranked up so that it puts a ton of down force on the ground with the track, this will keep all your weight forward on the sled. That's why it feels the way it does on hard pack. When you get into soft snow there is no resistance under the track, so instead of keeping a ton of weight forward on the skis it simply trenches down and gets stuck. If you were transferring too much weight to the back, you would get tons of traction on hard pack and the skis would be off the ground more than they were on it.
When I spoke of the front suspension, I meant the very front (at the skis). If the front is really low and the back is high, it will sling all the weight to the front of the sled. Your problem is because the weight isn't rolling to the rear of the sled when you nail it, and the weight on the skis is creating a ton of resistance. Out of curiosity, when you sit down on your sled does the rear suspension sag at all? Is it hard to make it squish down when you hop on it?
I see what the other two are saying about limiter straps, and am not contradicting them. It is possible to have so much weight roll to the back that you don't even have all of your track on the ground because you're riding a wheelie everywhere. It would be like making your 144 into a 121 because the front of the track isn't on the snow, which would also make a really poor approach angle. From your posts I've read though, this isn't your trouble. Your trouble is exactly the opposite. When I have the throttle on the hand grip in the powder my whole sled floats on the track and the skis barely touch the snow, if at all. It is a fine line. You want the skis to not touch so there is no resistance from them, yet you don't want to have so much weight rolled back that you don't have all of your track on the ground.
When I spoke of the front suspension, I meant the very front (at the skis). If the front is really low and the back is high, it will sling all the weight to the front of the sled. Your problem is because the weight isn't rolling to the rear of the sled when you nail it, and the weight on the skis is creating a ton of resistance. Out of curiosity, when you sit down on your sled does the rear suspension sag at all? Is it hard to make it squish down when you hop on it?
I see what the other two are saying about limiter straps, and am not contradicting them. It is possible to have so much weight roll to the back that you don't even have all of your track on the ground because you're riding a wheelie everywhere. It would be like making your 144 into a 121 because the front of the track isn't on the snow, which would also make a really poor approach angle. From your posts I've read though, this isn't your trouble. Your trouble is exactly the opposite. When I have the throttle on the hand grip in the powder my whole sled floats on the track and the skis barely touch the snow, if at all. It is a fine line. You want the skis to not touch so there is no resistance from them, yet you don't want to have so much weight rolled back that you don't have all of your track on the ground.
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MtnMax600
New member
you should think about getting the MPI transfer enhancement kit. It made a huge difference on my sled, definitely worth getting(or making some yourself)
mod-it: The rear is really loose (bad shock?). It does'nt move all the way up when I step of sled, have to lift a little to make it "fully return". I think the front is loose even on hardest ( have a yellow spring, ohlins, shock standard). Should'nt the ohlins spring be harder than OEM???
Here's the setup as I remember:
Skis : Almost hardest or hardest.
Limiter Straps: Loosest (all the way out)
Front Shock: Middle or upper hole in the 3 selections in attach. Spring loosest.
Rear shock: Middle
Transfer Rods: Standard, thick spacer down to bolt. Thin up to chassie.
It's with this setup the sled has'nt liked snow...
When we tried with my friends (03- Viper Mtn SLP pipes, clutch-kit other standard) and set up my sled exactly like his (it runs VERY GOOD in deep snow) my didn'nt worked. Even when we stopped next eachother and tried to drove away slowly (just moving) his just went away while mine was "glued" and the track slowly digged down in snow until it was stucked on footsteps... (Same rpm when cluth attach)
Really want to give a HUGE THANK YOU to everyone trying to help me with this wierd problem...
Oh, remember a little question "of line"... What octane do you use "over sea". I use 98 octane, think the sled runs best on that. The other octane we have is 95, 96. Has in mind you run lower octane, just curious...
Here's the setup as I remember:
Skis : Almost hardest or hardest.
Limiter Straps: Loosest (all the way out)
Front Shock: Middle or upper hole in the 3 selections in attach. Spring loosest.
Rear shock: Middle
Transfer Rods: Standard, thick spacer down to bolt. Thin up to chassie.
It's with this setup the sled has'nt liked snow...
When we tried with my friends (03- Viper Mtn SLP pipes, clutch-kit other standard) and set up my sled exactly like his (it runs VERY GOOD in deep snow) my didn'nt worked. Even when we stopped next eachother and tried to drove away slowly (just moving) his just went away while mine was "glued" and the track slowly digged down in snow until it was stucked on footsteps... (Same rpm when cluth attach)
Really want to give a HUGE THANK YOU to everyone trying to help me with this wierd problem...
Oh, remember a little question "of line"... What octane do you use "over sea". I use 98 octane, think the sled runs best on that. The other octane we have is 95, 96. Has in mind you run lower octane, just curious...
..SNAKEBIT..
VIP Member
wait skis are you running and did you ever check the toe out?
mod-it
Member
Comparing your stock viper to a triple piped viper with the clutching set up is like comparing apples to oranges. It is like comparing a 600cc to an 800cc.
Stock viper=119hp
Triple pipe viper=150hp
My SLP pipe instructions say to run 91 octane or better, which is premium grade over here. It is difficult to find much higher than 93 around here (average pump gas) without mixing race gas in (see: donating your first born child to cover cost).
I would loosen the rear suspension like the other two said. You don't want the track being forced down into the snow.
Stock viper=119hp
Triple pipe viper=150hp
My SLP pipe instructions say to run 91 octane or better, which is premium grade over here. It is difficult to find much higher than 93 around here (average pump gas) without mixing race gas in (see: donating your first born child to cover cost).
I would loosen the rear suspension like the other two said. You don't want the track being forced down into the snow.
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Boondocker-1
New member
Swedenboy said:
Sounds to me like you have your emergency brake on or adjusted to tight... You may also need to adjust your transfer rods. I removed mine. If you do that you have to run anti-rachet drivers. Also check and make sure your track isn't too tight. How is the alignment of your skis?