Yamaha vs. Polaris Dragon

BBlueSRX said:
Soooo, the Nytro 1057cc races in a 600 2 smoke class.......................................according to your math that would be a 457cc advantage over the rest of the 2 smoke class right??!?!?!
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exactly...

to throw another ripple in the pond, when motocross went and allowed 4 strokes to compete, they allowed up to 450cc 4 strokes to compete with 250cc 2 strokes.

both were competitive this way.

and yet another ripple, in AMA Formula Xtreme 600cc liquid I4s compete with up to 700cc inline liquid cooled triples, 850cc LC twins, 1300cc or so air cooled 4cylinders, and like 1600cc air cooled twins.

all are competitive, minus the big air oil cooled buells that cannot seem to complete races.
 

ExpertXViper said:
Not tryin to jump in this or anything but Horkn four strokes are always allowed more CC's than 2 strokes in MOST sanctioned racing. I dont where you come off comparing 2 4 stroke streetbikes, but thats a horrible and off topic comparision. You wanna compare 2s vs 4s look at supercross/motocross..... 450cc 4s RAN in the 250cc 2s class almost double the CC's/250cc 4s RAN in 125cc 2s that is double the CC's. Quads same thing for a 2s quad to run with the 4s 450's of today that 2 stroke has to have some major motor work done to it for it to beable to compete with a 450 4s.

I say "RAN" cause 2 strokes are slowly becoming a thing of the past esp. in motocross/supercross.
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yeah, i mentioned this.

most of the issue is the disadvantage of having 2 vs 4 cylinders...

in MX, they were all 1 cylinders. so double or near that displacement was acceptable.
 
horkn said:
it is simple, really.

If you understand the differences between 2 and 4 stroke, and then the differences in how many, and in what configuration the cylinders are, not to mention if they are naturally or artifically aspirated motors, then you would follow me.

Needless to mention the RX1, nor Apex is based from the r1 sportbike motors from 98-02 for the rx1, and 03-06 r1 sportbike motors for the apex.
1000-700 is 300cc's. Comparing apples to oranges of course, but displacement is still displacement, regardless.

the new nytro should run vs the 600 2 strokes. as it does.

As far as me being a polaris fan, yes I am. I have had many years of happy sledding, jet skiing, and atv'ing from their products. But this is a non sled related argument, fueled by employment of 2 totally different engine technologies rather than by brand loyalties.

fwiw, the only thing smoking here are the 2 cycle sleds.
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Just another little correction, the RX-1 engines are most like the FZ-1 sportbike, and the Apex engine is more like a 02-03 R1 sportbike. Neither one shares anything in common with the 04-06 R1.
 
the original carbed FZ1 motor is the original R1 motor.

I cant recall whether the 04-06 R1 still had 5 valves per cylinder, or if that is on the 07+ that they went to the 4 valve design head. either way, semantics.
 
horkn said:
the original carbed FZ1 motor is the original R1 motor.

I cant recall whether the 04-06 R1 still had 5 valves per cylinder, or if that is on the 07+ that they went to the 4 valve design head. either way, semantics.
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FZ's were cammed for torque.
04-06 R1s share NOTHING in common with the Apex engine...bore,stroke,head,cylinder spacing,compression, everything is different
07-08 R1s use the 4 valve head.
 
I think what is apples to apples is the dragon has been dynoed at 142hp and with the pipe it should be around 145-150 at a much lower weight. The Attak is 150 hp and much heavier, hp v. hp, seems like a fair comparison to me.
So if a 4 cylinder 350hp ricer is racing a 350hp 8 cylinder stang that wouldn't be a fair race?
 
I haven't ridden an Apex but I can't see it riding better than the Dragon in the rough stuff. The Apex probably does ride better in the smaller bumps though. I take magazine reviews with a grain of salt but when almost every mag says for the last two years that Polaris has the best suspension overall I would think it has to be true. I'm not surprised that the Apex would beat the Dragon in a race though.

.02 from a guy wearing a Yamaha sweatshirt and R6 baseball cap and riding a Polaris. :rofl:
 
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yes it all comes down to horsepower when comparing a 4 vs 2 stroke....stock of course. The poo should have stayed in with the yammi and didn't. SO WHAT!!!
 
id have to say that besides the nytro mtx the polaris dragon rmk is quite the sled, if i change my sled next year for more mountain riding i know il choose the rmk 100% sure due to beeing alot cheaper and lighter
 
BBlueSRX said:
I am confused??? how the hell can you compare superbikes and snowmobiles and get a 300cc DISADVANTAGE from a 700cc 2 stroke to a 1000cc 4 stroke?? The Nytro 1057cc runs in the 600 class....I understand from looking at your previous posts horkn that you are a die hard Poooolaris man and will defend Polaris, Liberty and Fuji industries until your death, but come on here.......smoke another one.
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Don't go bashing the Fuji motor now. My 97 XLT has 15,000 untouched miles on it. Ok, yah it took them until 97 to figure it out, but they worked very well from then on, lol.
 
I would say the Dragon is a very nice machine. the nicest sled Poo has ever build. It's far from Junk. In the right hands with it's weight and Power it should handle an Attack. I owned an attack and I loved it.
 
Apples to apples

horkn said:
There is still a 300cc displacement disadvantage.

300cc's 4 stroke terms is a LOT more tq.

whatever, while you say you don't like to bag on what other people ride, but most posts of yours are baggings on other brands.

How was his rear suspension set? what is your weight compared to his?

there are a TON of variables.

the attak is not classified as a 600. that would be the 3 cylinder yamahas. your 4 cylinder goes against the big iron from all the other brands.


it would not be fair to race a dodge viper vs a 300c, even hemi equipped. it's the same comparison.


compare apples to apples first.
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I can't help it if the other manufacturers cannot compete on the same level, run what ya brung! They're the only 'apples' out there! He didn't seem to think that there was any mismatch when he thought he was beating me! If this thing had close to 150 hp and the 800 only has 154, then I'd spank that too! Are you saying that only the 800 is apples to apples? I think you’re off here, and like I said, by the numbers; he should have had the advantage!

The Attak is classified as a 600, displacement wise as others have pointed out, and that’s where it started out cleaning up in the drags. They later started splitting them up like they are now because of the whining by the losers! The 300 cc is 'displacement' true, but, which is offset by the 2 stroke advantage, never mind considering the weight! So I think that point is moot and the bike argument is way off point, I wasn’t talking about bikes.

The dragon and the fusion different?? Not by much, same chassis with driveline and engine updates and different hood. The real failure with the fusion was that it had a face only a mother could love and they were welded to showroom floors because of it!

As for dissing the brand x stuff, I only call em like I see em, I can't help if the facts are that they break more often than not and definitely more than my Yamahas. I've been riding and racing for 38 years, and everybody that I know that owns cats, poos and Polaris are plagued with problems! I don’t know how you have had the service that you claim to have had with these products? Guys with Polaris have brought worn out secondaries and jackshafts to my shop for years asking for repairs. Why? Because its only a smooth, mild steel shaft with a keyway as opposed to Yamahas use of hardened steel spline! Which one do you think will still be working years down the road? The North American products are good off the showroom floor, for a time, but they won’t last because of the way they’re built, i.e. with lower quality.

In any case, I didn’t start this thread to get into arguments about that, I shared my experience, not speculation or opinion, so that anybody else out there that doesn’t know and maybe thinks that the opposite of what happened would occur, as the media and Polaris would have them believe, will know, it just ain’t so! G.
 
polaris vs yamaha

I don't know why you bash other brands ? A sled is a sled. I have owned polaris skidoo and yamaha . More yamahas then anything else . I had a 97 xc600 ,loved it , no problems .I hate to say it ,unless yamaha takes 50 or 100 lbs. off their sleds i am buying a skidoo next year . I am also prepared to fix it every week . In motocross brand doesn't matter just your skill . In Snowmobiling anyone can go fast in a straight line . Isn't it suppose to be fun ?
 
Something seems odd to me. Some of you are saying the Attack competes against the 600cc 2s class. This means Yamaha doesn't have anything to compete in the higher class since they went 4s?
 
bashing??

horkn said:
and there it is again..... :o|
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Amazing how you guys take the presentation of facts as bashing? Are you saying that the north american brands are of higher quality than Yamaha? Do you deny that they statistically break more often? Is a smooth, mild steel jackshaft with a keyway inferior or superior to a hardened steel spline? Is a LADA superior to a Lexus? In what world?

The new XP is absolutely plagued with problems, its everywhere! Motofishsled wants to buy a new ski-poo and thats his perogative. He states weight is his reason, thats his perception though as even the 'bow-to-the-polaris-god' magazine 'supertrax' has admitted that argument has no weight anymore! (their pun, not mine)

But take into the account the Nytro is 10000 k just to break it in! Add to that, the knowledge of the FACT that in that same time period his new poo, will at the very least need rings, and from what my friends have been experiencing (not speculation or opinion!) perhaps even a complete rebuild! Thats not even taking into account the rest of the sled he's gonna hafta fix, JUST the engine! So spending time in the garage while I'm riding is a given, its simply stated fact, and not bashing!

Why do you take the truth of the matter so personally!? Its not like I'm coming into your garage and kicking your sled! I beat it, I rode it, and I presented my findings, you call that bashing? Maybe you'd be happier on a Polaris site?

Remember Joe Friday, "Just the facts ma'am!" G.
 
Gorkon said:
even the 'bow-to-the-polaris-god' magazine 'supertrax' has admitted that argument has no weight anymore! (their pun, not mine)
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To a trail rider no, what about a mountain rider. Not everyone has the strength or size to muscle around a 600 pound sled. All sleds handle light when there's 3 ft. of powder, setup snow is a different story. Not everyone has the same opinions and that's why there's more than one manufacturer. Different things are important to different people in a sled. Just because somebody thinks one sled is better than the rest doesn't make it the best, plain and simple.

The only thing my Polaris is plagued by is that it starts every time, it uses gasoline, and it requires maintenaince just like any other sled.

I like Yami's just like everybody else that's here but some of you guys need to not look through the blue goggles all the time. No disrespect intended.
 
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