Question On Clutching

2003VIPERER said:
Madmatt, I Never Thought About Him Being 121 And Mine Is 136". I Will Give Your Set Up A Try Over The Weekend. Since I Already Have It Tuned In Now And Kept Good Notes On It, I Can Always Go Back To It. Thanks Yamerdown And Madmatt For All Your Help. I Will Let You Know How It Goes , Comparing One Set Up To The Other.
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Please do try it. I'd like to have the best setup for your machine. My point was to finish what you were trying, before you went another route.
 

Madmatt said:
I was just trying to steer him in the right direction since in the beginning of this thread he was obviously very confused.......adding tip weight to bring RPM's down?????
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Glad you cleared that up for him in posts #21 and #23. ;)!
 
Haven't tried the second set up on the clutch weights,but i did go for a ride last night and in a 3000' straight away, I seen 109mph on the speedo. thing does haul the mail. still going to try the second set up. no over reving at all. got that dam idle hang again though. just wanted to keep everyone posted.
 
My machine is so rich at idle it fouls plugs and my idle still hangs after a good pull. Lower your idle and see if that helps. I've given up trying to correct it and just blip the choke.
 
have not tried the second set up, been really busy at home. hopefully this week i will work on it.not to much snow left up here in the up. temps are warmer and i know clutching would be a b*tch to mess with. idle still hangs up, i just blip the choke for now. might just finish out the season with what i have now.i will keep you posted.
 
Set up improvement

I just wanted to make a post to say that I have made some minor adjustments to the set-up I posted earlier and I believe that it has improved. I am now running 15.6 rollers with a little more weight: 4g in the heel, 3.4g middle and 4.3g tip. Secondary is the same 48/34 dalton helix with a red spring at 70 or 80 depending on snow conditions and or temperature. This set up with more weight and larger rollers seems to shift a little bit more aggressively and more consistently. Hopefully I saved you some time....this one rips in my stock 136" viper.

Madmatt
 
Madmatt, what kind of top end mph are you seeing. last night i tried the red spring @80 wrap. my primary clutch was hot to touch and the secondary was not far behind that. i would assume that the belt is slipping! I do have to say that is feels really fast. I hit 111mph on the dream meter, was about a 3000' run. i checked the clutches temp after the wide open run. i would assume i need to change around the weights in the primary. getting some new fluffy stuff right now, they are calling for 2-5" today. so tonight i am going to do some more testing. thanks for posting you new set up. thanks

Greg a.k.a 2003VIPERER
 
Top speed

Greg.....the most I have seen on the dream meeter is 113. That was on a straight section of seasonal road where you can see forever. The snow was a little loamy and soft. I have not even had the sled on a lake or any real hard snow and to tell you the truth I could care less about top speed over 100. I ride trails at reasonable speeds MOST of the time. Yamerdown will probably disagree with me on this but the reason I put weight in the middle hole was because I had hot clutch temps with it empty especially riding at speeds between 30 and 60 which is where I find myself riding most of the time. I think your clutches are hot because you have no weight in the middle hole and you are slipping the belt a little......not a lot, but a little. As far as the secondary spring is concerned.....I'm using a red at 70 and 80. Both are good. The 70 upshifts faster but the backshift isn't quite as good. I like to get the primary dialed then make minor adjustments in the secondary right on the trail because it's quick and easy....all you need is a 14 & a 12mm and you can do it in less than 3 minutes. I changed my secondary wrap in the time it took two guys in my group to take a piss! When it's cold and hard and the sled makes good power I run it at 70....maybe even 60. When it warms up and the snow gets soft and the sled gets doggy I run it at 80. I like this trail set up so much I can honestly say I am DONE clutching this sled.

Madmatt
 
I too ride alot of trails as well, mostly off the groomed trail, i noticed that you are using 15.6 rollers? would i be able to run the same weight as you with my 15 rollers? i am going to use your first set up as a base set up. my main concern is the heat in the clutches. tonight i will change the weight in the primary and leave the secondary with the red spring @80.
 
2 weekends ago I got all my clutch stuff out & started playing again because I was a tick off on the topend pull after the track change.

My new trail/off-trail setup
8DN belt
Heel Clicker Grey primary spring
Heavy Hitter 48.5g base weight
heel 1/2" allen
center 3/8 steel bolt w/thin washer
tip 3/8 steel bolt
16mm Fett Brothers Rollers

Stock yami 43* helix
Yami green secondary spring set @ 80 (per snow condition)

136" Cobra track w/108 1.5 double backer studs
8-Tooth drivers 23/38 gearing
2 teeth removed from speedo pickup wheel

8800-8900 rpm with huge pull all the way to topend now.
1500' test track I picked up 9 mph on the speedo & running the test mules showed the same gain in pull to topend.

Hands down the coolest primary & secondary clutch temp I have ever had on the sled.
Belt is now running within 1/16" from the top of the primary @ full shift & I believe this is where the mph come from, Tip weight forcing the primary to close?

Wahoo Dat was fun!!!!!!!!!
 
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Your question

Bushman is a veteran on here and knows his stuff but I think his sled is quite a bit different than ours. I think he might even have pipes on it so our set ups are definately going to be a lot different.....he's obviously shooting for more RPM's than we are. Worth noting, however, is that he is using weight in EVERY hole and he is using large rollers.......I have been told that 15.6 is the largest you can go with HC's but obviously Bushman has them working.

So, on your question.....with 15 mm rollers you are going to have to run less weight in the primary more like my initial set up. The reason I went to larger rollers was to try and achieve a more consistent shift and to be able to run more weight in the primary. The 15.6 rollers accomplished this perfectly. With 15mm rollers it will work pretty well with the first set up I gave you. It will work much better with the second set up I just recently posted. I'm giving you all the information as I progress with this set up. You know now what I have learned.....run with it and have fun!

Madmatt
 
Hey Bushman

Did you read the article about clutching that Turk recently posted? It's a pretty good article....do a search. Near the end there is some dialogue about clutch temps and shift out in relation to gearing. Based on my calculations you are running 1.949 gearing which is substantially lower than the 1.727 that we are running. The article would lead me to believe that your cool clutches and full shift out is due to your gearing.......but who knows!

Madmatt
 
Madmatt said:
I have had better luck with a similar set up but I think it pulls better with a little weight in the middle. I ended up with 4 in the heel. 2.3 middle and 3.4 tip. Red primary spring and 15mm rollers. Secondary is 48/34 dalton w/ red spring at 80. I had the red at 70 but it overshifted all the time. It is only my opinion but I think that with no weight in the middle hole and the green secondary spring you are leaving some acceleration and top speed on the table. Again, just my opinion....every sled is different.

Madmatt
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trie this setup with red spring at 80 , now i am over revving to 8900rpm. tried the wrap to 70 but no differance, so do i add weight to the heel or tip?
 
Not to throw you a curve ball but have you tried dropping down one tooth on the top gear? With the lug height increase and extra track length gearing down could give you the extra performance that you are looking for.

Like you I have a 136 but only a 1" track. Kept my clutching and gearing the same as when it was a 121. Then I added a torque limter and a Bender 4x4 pipe. This gave me an increase of 500rpm. Added tip weight to bring it down. Sled pulls real good, clutches are cool and shows around 110mph on the dream-o-meter.Over all I've lost about 5mph with the extra length.

Primary
HC with grey spring
Heel 2.3
Mid 3.3
Tip 4.3
Stock rollers

Secondary
Stock spring at 80
Dalton 48/36
 
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i will have to look back in my notes but i do believe i am down one tooth on the top, at the end of the season last year i had the top end rebuilt n really never drove it after that. maybe that also has something to do with the clutches not being correct. i got is set up preatty good so i would like to continue with what i have now. just not sure to add weight to the tip or heel.
 
went for a ride and it pulled great, right up to 8600 n stayed there. did wot to wot and the rpm rose to 8600.
thankyou for the input, my sled feels like a new toy now!
 
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