upshift faster = lower rpm,s...primary & secondary.
YAMMIEGOD3:16
Active member
SO IF ONE HAS H/C CLICKERS LOADED UP WITH A 51-37 HELIX, AND HE IS OVER REVING, WHAT EFFECT WILL THERE BE INCREASEING FINISH ANGLE TO A 37 TO A 43. WILL THIS INCRESE RPM EVEN MORE OR DECRESE IT. QUESTION FOR JABBER 800 AND MIKE. 3:16 (yammie tony)
Bushman
New member
YAMMIEGOD3:16 said:
From what I have tested by going up in helix angle loads the motor more by creating a faster shift & dropping rpms.
Now thing get real interesting between helix manufactures, Not all are measured the same..... In fact the last time I checked a factory yamaha 47* helix was just about 50*
With that said I have seen posted where a Advant-Edge helix shifts around 10* faster than what it is marked.
If I was using a Micro-Bellmont 50/37 helix & pulling 9000 RPM's & switched to a Micro-Bellmont 50/43 on the same day same, same test track & same spring & setting should pull 8400 RPM's.
Increasing the finish angle will actually increase the upshift slightly thru the whole shift. It makes a main difference tho in that you will need less tip weight to meet your target rpm,s on top speed.If you leave the primary alone it will decrease rpm,s...slightly at initial but a lot more mid & really a lot on top.
YAMMIEGOD3:16
Active member
THANK YOU. WITH ALL THIS SAID. I HAVE SEEN EXACTLY THESE RESULTS ON MY SRX HEEL CLICKER SET-UP. BUT I HAVE SEEN TOTAL OPPSITE IN TESTING VMAX 4 800,s ON GRASS AND ICE. NOW VERY POSSIBLE VARIATION IN THESE HELIX,s COULD BE FACTOR. GUESS YA STILL NEED TO TEST. OK !! 3:16 (yammie tony)
You can take 2 51/43 helix,s from 2 different manufacters & see a 3-500 rpm variance in the way they perform. Everyone has a different idea on the way they cut them.
YAMMIEGOD3:16
Active member
THIS IS MY HELIX BOX. HAUCK, BENDER, MICRO BELMONT, MAXXIMUM, ADVENT, CUT STOCK YAMAHA. VERY POSSIBLEY WHY RESULTS ARE DEFFERENT. 3:16 (yammie tony)
Bushman
New member
YAMMIEGOD3:16 said:
Been there & confused that
OK, since we are off the topic a bit I have a question about adjustable weights, Makes no diff on make Clickers-Hitters-O.E. Yamaha
1st we all know that if you add weight to a position on the weight you can expect 100 RPM decrease per gram added.
I know adding weight will make a primary run cooler, But what does the added weight do?
I know it grabs the belt harder but how? Does adding weight slow down the shift of the weight or does adding weight speed up the shift of the arc of the weight?
centrifuge force ..the more weight you add the more force it produce went it turn so the more it pull on roller so clutch close faster
Bushman
New member
modsrx said:
Centrifical force- More weight = faster shift.
For some reason I was thinking that by grabbing the belt harder it was slowing the shift. Thank You!
well its true the more you apply pressure the more you grab the belt so the more the clutch try shift fast so it result in lower rpm if it shift to fast... the parts that it hard to understand its the secondary lolll
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Bushman
New member
modsrx said:
Ok since you brought it up
Essarex
New member
If set up properly, the brand or design of fly weight has nothing to do with the sled's ability to hit top speed. There is this common misnomer that a certain weight design will limit (or enhance) top end. Unless a design causes clutch binding (this was mentioned by someone already), any weight has the potential to upshift the primary to its highest ratio . Choose the proper mass, primary spring specs, secondary helix and spring, all appropriately, and you will have a clutch that goes to peak hp and holds it there until the sled's engine cannot produce more hp to pull more ratio (upshift) from the primary. Simply adding mass or lessening spring rate, in an attempt to upshift further into high gear, will just cause a loss of rpm.
If indeed HCs limited top end, that would mean that they are not upshifting, and therefore the engine would begin to over rev until it hit the limiter. Yes, this would limit top end, but it would not be the fault of the weight design, but rather it would be the tuner's fault for not adding mass to the weight to cause upshift (at the hp peak of the engine).
It should also be noted that some design's are indeed better than others when considering ALL apsects of performance, top speed, acceleration, backshifting, belt life, etc. Perhaps this is what was meant when the this thread got started. Maybe the original author liked his corner-to-corner performance with HCs but had them tuned to a point where they over reved into the limiter and thus limited top speed. It is here that the OEM weight may have a better top end with HC-like corner to corner.
If indeed HCs limited top end, that would mean that they are not upshifting, and therefore the engine would begin to over rev until it hit the limiter. Yes, this would limit top end, but it would not be the fault of the weight design, but rather it would be the tuner's fault for not adding mass to the weight to cause upshift (at the hp peak of the engine).
It should also be noted that some design's are indeed better than others when considering ALL apsects of performance, top speed, acceleration, backshifting, belt life, etc. Perhaps this is what was meant when the this thread got started. Maybe the original author liked his corner-to-corner performance with HCs but had them tuned to a point where they over reved into the limiter and thus limited top speed. It is here that the OEM weight may have a better top end with HC-like corner to corner.
YAMMIEGOD3:16
Active member
DUDE, VERY NICE POST. 3:16 (yammie tony)
Rambunctious
New member
I chased all these "common" recipes too and continued an overrev condition.
bottom line. I went from a 54/41 to a 51/45. i got the fast shifting bottom end with the 51 ( srx can pull a faster shift, that's why it works) but kept a close to stock full shift out to finally get my top end rpm back to 8500
I have a green secondary which backshifts faster than my original red. so I think I have my perfect combo:
to recap:
WWW for higher engagement
4.5 gram heel and 51 initial angle for faster bottom end shifting (initial accelleration)
4.5 g tip (5.5 gram tip weight was lazy)and 45 finish angle for full shiftout.
( 41 finish angle over reved even with 5.5 tip weight ...note affect of 5.5 tip above)
and green ( stiffer than stock) secondary for quick backshift
oh, and 168 studs on a 1" camo
don't put too few studs in if you stud. they will tear out ( been there done that)
srx power needs 168 to 192 studs
now, when I hit the NOS, that's another story............ can't have everything...
Ramb
bottom line. I went from a 54/41 to a 51/45. i got the fast shifting bottom end with the 51 ( srx can pull a faster shift, that's why it works) but kept a close to stock full shift out to finally get my top end rpm back to 8500
I have a green secondary which backshifts faster than my original red. so I think I have my perfect combo:
to recap:
WWW for higher engagement
4.5 gram heel and 51 initial angle for faster bottom end shifting (initial accelleration)
4.5 g tip (5.5 gram tip weight was lazy)and 45 finish angle for full shiftout.
( 41 finish angle over reved even with 5.5 tip weight ...note affect of 5.5 tip above)
and green ( stiffer than stock) secondary for quick backshift
oh, and 168 studs on a 1" camo
don't put too few studs in if you stud. they will tear out ( been there done that)
srx power needs 168 to 192 studs
now, when I hit the NOS, that's another story............ can't have everything...
Ramb
RIVERRUNNER
Active member
Theres some good info ^^^^ in last couple posts!!!!!!!
Bushman
New member
Ok just throwing something out here for people to think about.
If someone sells a clutch kit designed on a track dyno & makes more track H.P. than stock will it out perform a field tuned kit?
The reason I ask is because Dynamo^Joe sells Doo field tuned kits & admitts that they make between 2-4 less track H.P. than stock clutching........ But pick up 4-7 sled lengths over stock.
I guess as I have said before.... Snow is the great equilizer
Who has tried a dyno tuned kit? How did it work?
Seen some Doo guys hypin their dyno kits but seen em get covered by a HTG Polaris.
If someone sells a clutch kit designed on a track dyno & makes more track H.P. than stock will it out perform a field tuned kit?
The reason I ask is because Dynamo^Joe sells Doo field tuned kits & admitts that they make between 2-4 less track H.P. than stock clutching........ But pick up 4-7 sled lengths over stock.
I guess as I have said before.... Snow is the great equilizer
Who has tried a dyno tuned kit? How did it work?
Seen some Doo guys hypin their dyno kits but seen em get covered by a HTG Polaris.
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Rambunctious
New member
there is a difference between peak power, and the integration of power vs time or power vs. speed to get from point a to point b the fastest
a perfect clutch setup depends on your goal, ( 100 feet, 1000 feet, 2 miles, terminal velocity)
if you were looking for a speed run after 2 miles, you may want the dyno tuned steady state max Hp, assumming the dyno simulated the track and aero loads at that steady top end.
drag race, you want a clutch "kit" designed for that drag race specifics
many guys want a great clutch kit for corner to corner, AND ALSO beat anyone on the occasional 2 mile lake run, and that is where a lot of these setups mentioned are trying to optimize both without compromizing the other
knowing "for free" the things that mrviper and turk have found out through extensive testing get us leaps and bounds toward that perfect setup
who would know that you could shift faster than stock, dogging the engine theoretically to get the best low end accelleration. intuitively we want a low gear ration to pull hard. but the srx engine can keep up and in fact may balance the track spin and get the srx to 500 feet faster. that is the fundamental of the heavier heel weights and steeper initial helix angle that i first heard from Turk for example.
so.. to answer... depends on what your goal is
mine is trail riding rocket performance with the ability to still have the top end.
and i think im finally there
Ramb
a perfect clutch setup depends on your goal, ( 100 feet, 1000 feet, 2 miles, terminal velocity)
if you were looking for a speed run after 2 miles, you may want the dyno tuned steady state max Hp, assumming the dyno simulated the track and aero loads at that steady top end.
drag race, you want a clutch "kit" designed for that drag race specifics
many guys want a great clutch kit for corner to corner, AND ALSO beat anyone on the occasional 2 mile lake run, and that is where a lot of these setups mentioned are trying to optimize both without compromizing the other
knowing "for free" the things that mrviper and turk have found out through extensive testing get us leaps and bounds toward that perfect setup
who would know that you could shift faster than stock, dogging the engine theoretically to get the best low end accelleration. intuitively we want a low gear ration to pull hard. but the srx engine can keep up and in fact may balance the track spin and get the srx to 500 feet faster. that is the fundamental of the heavier heel weights and steeper initial helix angle that i first heard from Turk for example.
so.. to answer... depends on what your goal is
mine is trail riding rocket performance with the ability to still have the top end.
and i think im finally there
Ramb
YAMMIEGOD3:16
Active member
PRETTY TUFF TO BEAT A '' FIELD TUNED KIT ''. THATS WHY I ALWAYS SAY YOU HAVE TO TEST. SHURE YOU CAN BUY A CLUTCH KIT. BUT NOT TWO MOTORS ARE ALIKE. EITHER ARE HELIX,s. I WAS CORRECTED IN THIS POST ABOUT INCRESEING YOUR FINISH ANGLE WILL INCRESE RPM. NOT CLUTCHING 101 IT WON,T. BUT WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YA HAVE TWO 51-43 FROM TWO DEFFERENT MAKES. 3:16 (yammie tony)Bushman said:Ok just throwing something out here for people to think about.
If someone sells a clutch kit designed on a track dyno & makes more track H.P. than stock will it out perform a field tuned kit?
The reason I ask is because Dynamo^Joe sells Doo field tuned kits & admitts that they make between 2-4 less track H.P. than stock clutching........ But pick up 4-7 sled lengths over stock.
I guess as I have said before.... Snow is the great equilizer
Who has tried a dyno tuned kit? How did it work?
Seen some Doo guys hypin their dyno kits but seen em get covered by a HTG Polaris.
jabber800
New member
Hard comparing 2 different makes Tony, As stated earlier they all seem to cut there angles a bit different.. I have been playing with a set up on a 2000 SRX the past couple weeks and as stated different sleds will require different set ups.. I decided to try the 8Dn20 set up 4.5 grams tip and mid with www spring and 51/43 helix. All the talk on the site claims its a cheap but very effective set up. For me it overreved badly! 9000 rpm on 2000 ft ice run. I have since added .8 grams more to mid and tip and increased helix to 55/45, went to red spring at 80 degrees. This brought revs down to 8350, Picked up almost 9 mph in 2000 ft. with these changes. I hope to either soften the primary spring finish or add more weight before next run so I can drop the helix finish angle lower and try to pull a bit more mph.. It's all about testing and re testing something different.. What's ideal for one sled will not be for a second..