4-stroke forums very NEGATIVE!!!

Yamaha for years was known as quality first but since the inception of th 4 stroke models that reputation has suffered immensely. The problem woith the new models is many of them take hours of set-up and adjustment to get them to handle correctly and I for one do not want to spend hours wrenching before I can safely ride a new sled.The crappy skis are objective but the hand workers just have been terrible for years and it is a design flaw that pages of posts hasnt gotten enough of Yamahas attention to correct. The saving grace for Yamaha in all the lean years was their reliability which was thrown in other mfgs faces, that can no longer be said
 
Another thing to consider is that people are buying the first-year build of an all-new sled and they are complaining because the sled isnt perfect.
Im sorry, but you cant expect any company to come out with new product every year and expect it to be perfect.
The Apex, Phazer and FX Nytro had some issues in their first year, but by the 2nd year Yamaha had pretty much worked all the bugs out and almost everyone was happy.
I dont care how much testing and R&D you do, no one will abuse, neglect and torture test your product like your customers will. Its makes a big difference when you have your average Joe Nobody running a sled, who just rides the sled and doesnt pay attention to the proper maintenance; as opposed to having a factory test rider and a team of engineers who pour over the sled and check everything after a day's ride.
Its the same with any car or truck. The first year has some little issues, which are addressed and fixed by the time the 2nd model year comes around.
You know, Ive never owned a sled that was perfect and that I could find something that I didnt like. Even my '90 Phazer II, which I loved for the most part, had some little things that annoyed me about it (it was a pain to work on and it didnt want to idle until the engine had fully warmed up).
As far as the weight goes, yeah the 4-strokes are heavy but you dont notice the weight when you are riding them. I dont care what sled youve got, if you get it stuck or try to move it around your garage by hand, they ALL feel heavy.
I do agree with you guys that the handwarmer issues were BS but I also think that people need to have a better attitude and realize that these sleds are never going to be perfect.
 
Bakemono said:
Another thing to consider is that people are buying the first-year build of an all-new sled and they are complaining because the sled isnt perfect.
Im sorry, but you cant expect any company to come out with new product every year and expect it to be perfect.
The Apex, Phazer and FX Nytro had some issues in their first year, but by the 2nd year Yamaha had pretty much worked all the bugs out and almost everyone was happy.
I dont care how much testing and R&D you do, no one will abuse, neglect and torture test your product like your customers will. Its makes a big difference when you have your average Joe Nobody running a sled, who just rides the sled and doesnt pay attention to the proper maintenance; as opposed to having a factory test rider and a team of engineers who pour over the sled and check everything after a day's ride.
Its the same with any car or truck. The first year has some little issues, which are addressed and fixed by the time the 2nd model year comes around.
You know, Ive never owned a sled that was perfect and that I could find something that I didnt like. Even my '90 Phazer II, which I loved for the most part, had some little things that annoyed me about it (it was a pain to work on and it didnt want to idle until the engine had fully warmed up).
As far as the weight goes, yeah the 4-strokes are heavy but you dont notice the weight when you are riding them. I dont care what sled youve got, if you get it stuck or try to move it around your garage by hand, they ALL feel heavy.
I do agree with you guys that the handwarmer issues were BS but I also think that people need to have a better attitude and realize that these sleds are never going to be perfect.
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I hear ya there. But honestly first year or not it shouldn't require hours of work and more $ to get it just to handle half-way decent. Its a recreational vehicle made for fun. It's not a car. That said I agree 100% with you though.
And as far as the weight goes and getting it stuck and moving it around the garage goes.. there is a HUGE DIFFERENCE. If you own a newer skidoo and a yami at the same time like me.. you will notice how big a difference there is pretty quick. I have a hard time just loading the yami on the trailer and the skidoo is a breeze getting each o them stuck plain sucks, but no comparison which one is easier to obstract . There is no comparison when you own them both. Right now skidoo has great ideas and is putting out a not so great product, yami seems it has no ideas and is not putting out a great product.. guess they all suck something!! They are all too damn expensive too. There is no reason skidoo had to doo away with the rev and put out the product they have now that is much less reliable. They should have keep the rev chassis and improved it more. It was only out for four years. skidoo made a big mistake in my opinion. Yamaha made a big mistake with the desertion of the 2 stroke sleds. Yamaha has lost more and more ground to all other manufacturers every year. Skidoo I think keeps losing customers to yamaha because of reliability in their recent sleds. The problem is is yamaha would just capture those owners for lifetime owners intead of pushing them back to skidoo, there wouldn't be an issue. Both the companies need to do some big time fixing to thier lines.
But with all that said I would rather own a sled that is well engineered and fun as hell to ride, then own something that needs more money just to be fun to operate. Thats just me I guess..
Just an fyi too.. my freinds have a four car garage at their house.
3 bays are full, they contain 2 vipers, 3 vmaxs and one srx all with major problems and completely torn apart. The other bays contain an 04 rev with 10,000 untouched miles, my 06 rev and 2 untouched Artic craps with over 6,000 miles. Sleds are sleds, yamaha or not, they blow up at some point. The srx has major crank issues and just keeps blowing up even after the recall was done along time ago.. yea its a 98.
 
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Bake, You you would be impressed on how hard the test riders run the test mule yamahas around my cottage from their "secret northwoods test facility" Those guys haul so much butt that they really try to get the kinks worked out before a new machine is put out.

Even still, there are always kinks on new machines, and sometimes, you cannot make everyone happy.
 
maxout01 said:
I hear ya there. But honestly first year or not it shouldn't require hours of work and more $ to get it just to handle half-way decent. Its a recreational vehicle made for fun. It's not a car. That said I agree 100% with you though.
And as far as the weight goes and getting it stuck and moving it around the garage goes.. there is a HUGE DIFFERENCE. If you own a newer skidoo and a yami at the same time like me.. you will notice how big a difference there is pretty quick. I have a hard time just loading the yami on the trailer and the skidoo is a breeze getting each o them stuck plain sucks, but no comparison which one is easier to obstract . There is no comparison when you own them both. Right now skidoo has great ideas and is putting out a not so great product, yami seems it has no ideas and is not putting out a great product.. guess they all suck something!! They are all too damn expensive too. There is no reason skidoo had to doo away with the rev and put out the product they have now that is much less reliable. They should have keep the rev chassis and improved it more. It was only out for four years. skidoo made a big mistake in my opinion. Yamaha made a big mistake with the desertion of the 2 stroke sleds. Yamaha has lost more and more ground to all other manufacturers every year. Skidoo I think keeps losing customers to yamaha because of reliability in their recent sleds. The problem is is yamaha would just capture those owners for lifetime owners intead of pushing them back to skidoo, there wouldn't be an issue. Both the companies need to do some big time fixing to thier lines.
But with all that said I would rather own a sled that is well engineered and fun as hell to ride, then own something that needs more money just to be fun to operate. Thats just me I guess..
Just an fyi too.. my freinds have a four car garage at their house.
3 bays are full, they contain 2 vipers, 3 vmaxs and one srx all with major problems and completely torn apart. The other bays contain an 04 rev with 10,000 untouched miles, my 06 rev and 2 untouched Artic craps with over 6,000 miles. Sleds are sleds, yamaha or not, they blow up at some point. The srx has major crank issues and just keeps blowing up even after the recall was done along time ago.. yea its a 98.
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i think yami is now #2 manufacturer.
 
bldn blue said:
i think yami is now #2 manufacturer.
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Yeah, I don't know about Yamaha loosing more and more ground each year. In my neck of the woods I see more Yamaha's all the time. When I bought my SRX back in 02 there were no Yamaha's around which is kind of why I bought the SRX, to be different. Everyone and their dog had and MXZ. As for being innovative, just attemtping to place a 4-stroke in a sled was innovative. Most people couldn't even entertain the idea of a 4-stroke in a sled. Now look. In my opinion where Yamaha has taken the 4-stroke snowmobile in the past few years is equal or more innovative than what any other manufacture has ever accomplished in the snowmobile industry. Of course, others are now catching up with their 4-stroke versions but I'm sure none of them would even have the 4-stroke sleds the do if it was not for Yamaha's innovation. On another note, what Ski-doo is doing with 2-strokes is also very exciting. Its great to see them pushing the envelop of what can be accomplished with a 2-stroke.
 
fwiw, in 03 all 4 manufacturers had 4 strokes. The new for 03 rx1 was the highest performer in 03, but it was also probably the heaviest.

Also, Polaris and I think even cat has 2 strokes that are as clean as the doo sdi mills.

I too see more yamahas than I used to 5, 10 and 15 years ago on the trails. Yamaha's aggressive 4 stroke campaign has been very well received, I just wish most of their sleds cost less.
 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------jimmie d's post
Yamaha for years was known as quality first but since the inception of th 4 stroke models that reputation has suffered immensely. The problem woith the new models is many of them take hours of set-up and adjustment to get them to handle correctly and I for one do not want to spend hours wrenching before I can safely ride a new sled.The crappy skis are objective but the hand workers just have been terrible for years and it is a design flaw that pages of posts hasnt gotten enough of Yamahas attention to correct. The saving grace for Yamaha in all the lean years was their reliability which was thrown in other mfgs faces, that can no longer be said
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not sure where you are going with the warmer issue maybe the 08 nytro has poor ones but i'll tell you my 06 nytro will melt the skin off you're hands through you're gloves all the way out including the hooks if you dont turn them down i usually run them at 1 bar anything above 3 bars is very uncomfortable.


blue
 
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4 strokes vs 2 strokes

Just my $.02... approx 10 years ago when YAMAHA had the power ride tours coming through Ontario, I asked the reps how large (percentage wise)snowmobile manufacturing was to the company and it's big picture- the answer- less than 2%...truth-dunno. My point is they looked at what the future MIGHT bring ( ie. regulations), made a commitment to invest in 4 stroke technologies...make advancements every year...and in my opinion have done a great job! Problems still exist, yes, as with ANY manufacturer, and should be dealt with quickly (people have to work TOO FLIPPIN' HARD JUST TO HAVE FUN). As stated earlier in this post...I'm sure they read this stuff! My only wish is that YAMAHA would have continued in the 2 stroke market, as the other manufacturers have, but I can only assume budgeting would not allow this. I can still picture a 1000cc 2 stroke PV tripple/tripple...OH WELL!
 
I have always been a Yamaha fan, due to fit and finish and durability. I work on all sled manufactures sleds. Yamaha being the most reliable next I would say is Polaris, then Ski doo and last Arctic Cat. I really like the looks of the 2 stroke sleds. I have not really warmed up to the 4 stroke machines. Beside being very difficult to work on, I see alot of items which are very expensive to fix once a small impact happens. I seem to ride older but mechanically very sound machines, Maybe I am just getting older and cheap.
 
horkn said:
Also, Polaris and I think even cat has 2 strokes that are as clean as the doo sdi mills.
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ok, maybe sdi, but what about the doo etec? uses HALF as much oil as the SDI and polaris cfi. also 21 mpg.. pretty dang impressive for 2 stroke.
 
chevmal67 said:
ok, maybe sdi, but what about the doo etec? uses HALF as much oil as the SDI and polaris cfi. also 21 mpg.. pretty dang impressive for 2 stroke.
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At the moment the e tec's very low oil usage has been unparalleled. The mpg of the etec isn't really much better than the sdi or cfi mills. Heck, my carbed 600 ves gets 16 mpg.

That said, I hope the etec has the durability that they need. Oil is cheap compared to a rebuild, especially a crank rebuild.
 
I guess the idea is that with the ETEC SDI you have no fuel tranfering through the engine ports or crank, only air and oil. This means you are not pulling any oil with the fuel mixture into the combustion chamber and you are not diluting the crank bearings with fuel. It would seem that this would make them even more reliable.
 
jaydaniels said:
I guess the idea is that with the ETEC SDI you have no fuel tranfering through the engine ports or crank, only air and oil. This means you are not pulling any oil with the fuel mixture into the combustion chamber and you are not diluting the crank bearings with fuel. It would seem that this would make them even more reliable.
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Yeah, the theory is sound, as fuel washes away oil. But I want to see if the theory in practice is as sound.:)

My guess is that it works as well as it should.
 
I cant wait to see the bill when these Etecs start gernading. Wonder how much the injectors cost when they get smashed with little pieces of crank bearing and ring/piston pieces. Or when your "fuel cooled" brain box goes to he!!. They would be a great sled to ride for a year or two and then dump, I tend to keep things for too long so they would be no good for me.
 
the whole etec thing isnt brand new.. theyve been putting them in boats for prob around 5 years now. just the whole etec in snowmobile is new. i would guess that if it didnt work there they wouldnt just start puttin em in sleds 5 yrs later.
 
I believe you are correct in saying the etec has been used for many years. Ol, OMC was using this technology long before Bombardier bought the company. Currently the Evinrude OB is the only brand using this technology not sure if it is patent rights or what. They are some of the cleanest running two strokes in the world.
 
alswagg said:
I believe you are correct in saying the etec has been used for many years. Ol, OMC was using this technology long before Bombardier bought the company. Currently the Evinrude OB is the only brand using this technology not sure if it is patent rights or what. They are some of the cleanest running two strokes in the world.
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Yes, it has been used in outboards for a few years. However, outboards are a lot different than sleds. Sleds rev higher and are subjected to a weather (cold) that outboards will never see.

The jury will be out for 2-3 years whe we see the longevity of these motors, but I do trust that Bombardier has tested it thoroughly. We just need to see real world reports.
 
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