I would like to own an 02ish ZR 900 and an 03 F7, always really like those and the new F8 is pretty impressive. Not real fond of either the other two.
Had to add, i'd also like a 97 vmaxx 800, 93 exciter sx, and a Nytro XTX.
Had to add, i'd also like a 97 vmaxx 800, 93 exciter sx, and a Nytro XTX.
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srxbully
New member
anything else??SRXBob said:
kozal01
New member
i would have to say polaris. i bought a 1998 XC 600 from good freind for my wife and it has been a rock solid sled. easy starting, very reliable and pretty fast. it even spent the day on the bottom of a lake a few years back and came back for more! lol. the same friend i bought the polaris from now has a ski doo blizzard 800, thats the only experience i have with those, it seems nice, although it spent a week at the dealership after only 10 miles on the odo. last i would put artic crap, thats all my wifes family rides and they have stranded them on the trail more times than i can count.
srxbully said:anything else??
What can I say I like alot of sleds.
i think its funny on how people base their decisions and stick with them 100% because they had one thing bad happen with that brand.. or had a buddy that had A problem with theirs. look at the ppl with blown up vipers(seems to be a few) and what not right now.. if they were all your riding buddys, and you were nuetral, i bet you wouldnt think too much of yamaha... sorry but they all break.. sure theres yammis that go 10,000 mi+ with no problems, but id be willing to bet the other competitors sleds do that too. i voted for doo, i love the rev suspension!
Roost 'Er
Member
CAT all the way
srxbully
New member
failRoost 'Er said:
shortstop20
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chevmal67 said:
VenomMod said:
Most of them don't have the TPS set right from the factory(that's typical for Polaris, easy fix though). It effects the air/fuel ratio in a big way. They are still scary lean in the midrange for EPA reasons and pig rich on top so they don't blow up with today's crappy gas. PCIII or Boondocker box will fix that. I haven't heard about the clunking in the drivetrain, the Assault track is very stiff and meant for off trail free riding. If you trail ride with it I wouldn't be surprised to see torn lugs. Polaris recommends a short lug track for trail riding. Supposedly an ECU reflash is coming soon and they are waiting for EPA approval at the moment. As far as the 2010 models being "spot on", that's what they said this year, just so you know. They are a great sled though, I'm just saying if you plan on buying one plan on buying a fuel programmer for it too and if you don't end up needing it, well then great.
Just like every other brand Polaris isn't perfect(far from it actually) and I'll be the first to say it.
As far as favorite snowmobile brand goes, Yamaha doesn't have anything that interests me honestly. I know how the Polaris sleds work so I guess I'm probably partial to them. I like some of Doo and Cat's sleds. I don't hate Yami's sleds, like I said they just don't have a sled for me.
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horkn
New member
shortstop20 said:
Most of them don't have the TPS set right from the factory(that's typical for Polaris, easy fix though). It effects the air/fuel ratio in a big way. They are still scary lean in the midrange for EPA reasons and pig rich on top so they don't blow up with today's crappy gas. PCIII or Boondocker box will fix that. I haven't heard about the clunking in the drivetrain, the Assault track is very stiff and meant for off trail free riding. If you trail ride with it I wouldn't be surprised to see torn lugs. Polaris recommends a short lug track for trail riding. Supposedly an ECU reflash is coming soon and they are waiting for EPA approval at the moment. As far as the 2010 models being "spot on", that's what they said this year, just so you know. They are a great sled though, I'm just saying if you plan on buying one plan on buying a fuel programmer for it too and if you don't end up needing it, well then great.
Just like every other brand Polaris isn't perfect(far from it actually) and I'll be the first to say it.
As far as favorite snowmobile brand goes, Yamaha doesn't have anything that interests me honestly. I know how the Polaris sleds work so I guess I'm probably partial to them. I like some of Doo and Cat's sleds. I don't hate Yami's sleds, like I said they just don't have a sled for me.
Shortstop,
I read in this months Snowtech that the dual injector CFI motors seem to have this hesitation issue, and it is an issue of when the injectors switch from low speed to the high speed injectors that causes this. All 4 injector cfi 6 7 800cc all have this, and some are much better and some worse than others. Mind you apparently it only happens if you chop the throttle. A steady hand will apparently never cause this. There may be some copyright issue with skidoo, so that may be why Polaris does not leave the low speed injectors on all the time and supplement them at higher speed with the second set of (high speed) injectors. Apparently a set of NGK iridium plugs in place of the stock plugs will either eliminate or nearly erase this issue, regardless of how quickly you pull the trigger. A 20 dollar 5 minute fix is a perfectly simple fix. If you notice now for 09 they offer a CFI2 with only 2 injectors, rated at 120 hp. I see that in the shift's they offer this 600 called the CFI2 motor, and I am sure it is in other sleds as well. That model has no bogging issues, becasue it only has 1 set of injectors.
Snow Tech has a ton of great tech and tuning tips, and have yet to let me down.
In any case, even if the iridium plugs don't cure it, I am confident that Polaris will figure it out this winter, offer a tech bulletin, and possibly cover the cost as well. Polaris is pretty good about that last bit.
At worst, the aftermarket will fix it, with a cheaper resolution than getting a power commander or similar box. I bet if all users that have an issue try the iridium plugs that the numbers of complaints of the bog will go down.
This single, and dual set injector issue oddly reminds me of the Suzuki TLS (single set injectors) and the TLR (dual sets) with low and high speed injectors. The power commander and other efi boxes allowed you to mess with injector settings and you could dial basically any fuel delivery issue out.
These 2 suzuki bikes (many other suzukis as well)were notorious for having improperly set TPS, so I wouldn't doubt any arctic cat engines with TPS are off as well, especially since suzuki does not buil snowmobiles, they just warranty the motors.
It does not suprise me if Polaris has the TPS imporperly set as well.
To be fair though each particular engine is a bit different, and any mods as minor as they may seem will affect how the TPS should be set. They are tricky little pieces, but some experimentation IME will get the sweet spot once you discover how to tune a TPS.
I have yet to hear about clunking drivetrains on any of the IQ sleds.
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VenomMod
New member
I should restate on the clunking. The clunking in the drive trains, are from mountain sleds (2-Assaults, 1-RMK). I haven't heard anything about the short tracks. It sort of frustrates me when I see two of my good buddies with BRAND NEW sleds (under 600 miles) and Polaris won't even acknowledge any of the problems they've had (I know others with problems...). Both of these sleds were ridden off trail (UP) and out west (NO TRAILS). One of the Assaults has had to have the chaincase refilled 4 times in 600 miles. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to bash Polaris. I know every brand has issues. After riding an Assault, I really really want one (superb power and handling). I'm just not too thrilled with the customer service a few people I know, aren't getting. Sorry for my rant.
Yamaouch08
VIP Member
I would say Ski-doo is #2 to me,off course I already own one. Then I would say Polaris is my #3, I would rather walk than ride a Cat,Well i guess I would be doing alot of that anyways if I had one! LOL
mduevel
New member
I think I would place Ski-Doo 2nd but close behind would be Polaris and bringin up the tail end woudl be Artic Cat. I don't have much riding experience with them. Most of my friends don't ride Yamaha. I have seen all of them (all brands) break out a wrench on the trail one time or another while my Yamaha stands strong. However, in todays market all of them are nice. I rode an 07 F8 LTX the other weekend and I thought it rode real nice and I can't stand Artic Cat so it was a real surprise.
shortstop20
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horkn,
Here's a quote from SnoWest magazine concerning the 800 CFI setup.
If you read ride reports of preseason machines you will see that nobody complains of a bog anywhere within the throttle range, most of them just say this is the fastest and hardest pulling stock 800 they've ever ridden. Now at production time we have many people(mostly at low elevation) that are experiencing a bog on their machines.
Most of the 600 CFI 4 and 700 CFI 4 machines seem to be running well after the latest reflash.
I have heard of a few CFI 2's that have the bog as well. I agree the CFI 2 is a better setup and ride reports confirm that but if they don't leave the factory correct it's a mute point.
Polaris introduced the 800 CFI in '08 for RMK models only so a vast majority of their fuel mapping testing was done at high elevation I'm sure. I remember hearing reports of flatlanders riding their '08 Dragon RMK 800's at low elevation and having the same problem guys are this year with their '09 models at low elevation. Think about carbed snowmobiles for a moment, many of them(all Polaris sleds for that matter) need the needle adjusted when switching from high to low elevation(along with the mains of course). Now think about the CFI system going from high to low elevation, if they don't "fatten" it up enough it will be lean in the midrange, which it is. Many have reported A/F ratios of 15 or 16 to 1. Compared to WOT where the ratio is 10 or 11 to 1 if I remember correctly. Polaris didn't do enough testing at low elevation to keep the midrange from running lean and the strict EPA regulations do not help any. Then there's the fact that they are pig rich at WOT(at low elevation at least). Both of these things have been verified by many people by checking plugs, wash, air/fuel ratio sensors, and EGT's. ......but then there's some people riding their RMK's and short tracks at low elevation without any bogging issues of any sort. All of these things lead me to believe that they are not all leaving the factory the same(TPS mainly) and that Polaris has not done enough testing at low elevation with these sleds to get a good fuel map for them. Most of the RMK's seem to run great at high elevation but considering the fact that they can run less octane at high elevation with the ethanol wires connected(for premium fuel) and that Polaris has done extensive testing on the fuel mapping at high elevation it's no surprise they run good there.
I have rode a '08 Dragon RMK and it had the bog whether you chopped the throttle open or went into it steady, didn't matter.
I have my doubts about the Iridium plugs but I guess it's worth a shot.
Do you mean a reflash of the ECU? I guess that's an option but I don't see that happening, at least not for low elevation riders. I would much rather have a PCIII and tune it myself than wait for Polaris to fix it but I can understand that some don't like to tune sleds. Many people have been using the PCIII boxes along with watching plugs, wash, air/fuel ratio and EGT's as I said before and have completely cured any bog, surging, poor MPG and poor performance.
I am convinced that incorrect TPS settings have caused most of the issues as one dealer I spoke with stated that 29 out of 30 800 CFI's they tested had the TPS set incorrectly.
The fuel quality today doesn't help any(4 strokes have a definite advantage there). Almost all reports show that these sleds run 10x better with non-oxygenated 91 octane fuel with the ethanol wires plugged in as compared to 87-91 octane WITH ethanol and the ethanol wires disconnected.
Polaris sleds haven't been fast out of the box for several years, if they would start making them fast stock they would sell many more sleds, maybe even taking back #1.
VenomMod,
Your friends may be experiencing some icing between the outside and the center extrovert driver. It happened to a few people last year but was pretty isolated. They could try spraying some Pam cooking spray on the side of the drivers(not where they drive the track), in order to keep the ice from building up. That's an old mountain rider trick to keep ice buildup at a minimum, they used to do it to tunnels. That Assault must have a leaky chaincase seal or something because having to refill the chaincase oil already is ridiculous, let alone 4 times. Is the fluid milky at all? Tell him to check the seal on the inside of the chaincase. Reach up into the tunnel and put your finger where the driveshaft and bearing meet. If it's wet there the seal is junk.
Here's a quote from SnoWest magazine concerning the 800 CFI setup.
If you read ride reports of preseason machines you will see that nobody complains of a bog anywhere within the throttle range, most of them just say this is the fastest and hardest pulling stock 800 they've ever ridden. Now at production time we have many people(mostly at low elevation) that are experiencing a bog on their machines.
Most of the 600 CFI 4 and 700 CFI 4 machines seem to be running well after the latest reflash.
I have heard of a few CFI 2's that have the bog as well. I agree the CFI 2 is a better setup and ride reports confirm that but if they don't leave the factory correct it's a mute point.
Polaris introduced the 800 CFI in '08 for RMK models only so a vast majority of their fuel mapping testing was done at high elevation I'm sure. I remember hearing reports of flatlanders riding their '08 Dragon RMK 800's at low elevation and having the same problem guys are this year with their '09 models at low elevation. Think about carbed snowmobiles for a moment, many of them(all Polaris sleds for that matter) need the needle adjusted when switching from high to low elevation(along with the mains of course). Now think about the CFI system going from high to low elevation, if they don't "fatten" it up enough it will be lean in the midrange, which it is. Many have reported A/F ratios of 15 or 16 to 1. Compared to WOT where the ratio is 10 or 11 to 1 if I remember correctly. Polaris didn't do enough testing at low elevation to keep the midrange from running lean and the strict EPA regulations do not help any. Then there's the fact that they are pig rich at WOT(at low elevation at least). Both of these things have been verified by many people by checking plugs, wash, air/fuel ratio sensors, and EGT's. ......but then there's some people riding their RMK's and short tracks at low elevation without any bogging issues of any sort. All of these things lead me to believe that they are not all leaving the factory the same(TPS mainly) and that Polaris has not done enough testing at low elevation with these sleds to get a good fuel map for them. Most of the RMK's seem to run great at high elevation but considering the fact that they can run less octane at high elevation with the ethanol wires connected(for premium fuel) and that Polaris has done extensive testing on the fuel mapping at high elevation it's no surprise they run good there.
I have rode a '08 Dragon RMK and it had the bog whether you chopped the throttle open or went into it steady, didn't matter.
I have my doubts about the Iridium plugs but I guess it's worth a shot.
Do you mean a reflash of the ECU? I guess that's an option but I don't see that happening, at least not for low elevation riders. I would much rather have a PCIII and tune it myself than wait for Polaris to fix it but I can understand that some don't like to tune sleds. Many people have been using the PCIII boxes along with watching plugs, wash, air/fuel ratio and EGT's as I said before and have completely cured any bog, surging, poor MPG and poor performance.
I am convinced that incorrect TPS settings have caused most of the issues as one dealer I spoke with stated that 29 out of 30 800 CFI's they tested had the TPS set incorrectly.
The fuel quality today doesn't help any(4 strokes have a definite advantage there). Almost all reports show that these sleds run 10x better with non-oxygenated 91 octane fuel with the ethanol wires plugged in as compared to 87-91 octane WITH ethanol and the ethanol wires disconnected.
Polaris sleds haven't been fast out of the box for several years, if they would start making them fast stock they would sell many more sleds, maybe even taking back #1.
VenomMod,
Your friends may be experiencing some icing between the outside and the center extrovert driver. It happened to a few people last year but was pretty isolated. They could try spraying some Pam cooking spray on the side of the drivers(not where they drive the track), in order to keep the ice from building up. That's an old mountain rider trick to keep ice buildup at a minimum, they used to do it to tunnels. That Assault must have a leaky chaincase seal or something because having to refill the chaincase oil already is ridiculous, let alone 4 times. Is the fluid milky at all? Tell him to check the seal on the inside of the chaincase. Reach up into the tunnel and put your finger where the driveshaft and bearing meet. If it's wet there the seal is junk.
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NYsledneck
New member
I have to say ski-doo for me. My uncle had a ski-doo dealership for many years and thats all i rode till i switched to blue in 97. And yes they still had the dealership when i made the switch. The family wanted to disown me for a while but they got over it...lol. Actually our whole family rode yamaha back in the 60`s-mid 80`s then switched to doo.
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srxbully
New member
huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh???????????????????im just aIke said:
..with nothing better to do.
cougar1985
New member
Me ,im not ready to do the 4 stroke routine yet so if i ever bought a new sled it would be a 600 e-tec but by the time im ready maybe they will have a 1000 or 1200 etec,one can only hope.I still love my 94 vmax and now with the xtra-10 rear-end i will proably love it more.Sure wish yamaha would give us a 2 stroke ,say around a 700 or 800 with direct injection.
srxbully
New member
i said the same thing until...............have you ever rode a four stroke..not just a demo.actually ride it??ride one & then say your not ready for a 4 stroke....cougar1985 said:
Prairie Lariat
New member
shortstop20 said:
My CFI 2 had the bog, got re-flashed and is good to go now. Was very annoying though.
VenomMod
New member
VenomMod,
Your friends may be experiencing some icing between the outside and the center extrovert driver. It happened to a few people last year but was pretty isolated. They could try spraying some Pam cooking spray on the side of the drivers(not where they drive the track), in order to keep the ice from building up. That's an old mountain rider trick to keep ice buildup at a minimum, they used to do it to tunnels. That Assault must have a leaky chaincase seal or something because having to refill the chaincase oil already is ridiculous, let alone 4 times. Is the fluid milky at all? Tell him to check the seal on the inside of the chaincase. Reach up into the tunnel and put your finger where the driveshaft and bearing meet. If it's wet there the seal is junk.[/QUOTE]
I'll have to talk to them. I'll ask my buddy about the chaincase seal, and talk to them about Ice build up. I know one of my buddies always puts his sled away in a heated garage. Maybe that could be causing some problems. Thanks for the info.
Your friends may be experiencing some icing between the outside and the center extrovert driver. It happened to a few people last year but was pretty isolated. They could try spraying some Pam cooking spray on the side of the drivers(not where they drive the track), in order to keep the ice from building up. That's an old mountain rider trick to keep ice buildup at a minimum, they used to do it to tunnels. That Assault must have a leaky chaincase seal or something because having to refill the chaincase oil already is ridiculous, let alone 4 times. Is the fluid milky at all? Tell him to check the seal on the inside of the chaincase. Reach up into the tunnel and put your finger where the driveshaft and bearing meet. If it's wet there the seal is junk.[/QUOTE]
I'll have to talk to them. I'll ask my buddy about the chaincase seal, and talk to them about Ice build up. I know one of my buddies always puts his sled away in a heated garage. Maybe that could be causing some problems. Thanks for the info.