Viper Mountain heelclicker clutching with stock engine

5,2 grams in heel
4,8 actual grams in the tip. The tip had to be loaded to match the low gearing of the sled and the shallow end angle of the helix (44/38).

This is for sea level like elevation at moderate cold temps.

Mt Viper Mike said:
Norwegian, did you mean you had .5 grams of weight in the tip or 5 grams in the tip? And then 5.2 or so grams in the heel, right?



More weight in heel and less in tip = Engages quicker at a lower rpm = less spinning.


Lots of tip weight/ low heel weight = drag racing/ high engagement, often using studs/ lot's of track spin.



I was thinking you meant 5.2 grams in the tip, which seemed high to me......




Sorry!




Mike
Click to expand...
 
Try this

I have a fair amount of time working on this set up. You are going to have to stay really shallow on the helix, especially on the finish angle. I like a 48/34 but a 48/36 will also work well. Trying to use the stock helix for your application is a complete waste of time.....don't even bother. A red secondary spring will work at 80 or 90 degrees but for mountain riding you might like a green at 70 or 80 because it will backshift a little quicker and won't be as suceptable to overshifting when you spin. In the primary you definately want the HC red spring and you want as much weight on the heel as possible to keep the RPM's down on engagement....start with the long allen and 5 or 6 washers. Throw about 3.3 in the tip and leave the middle empty. Should be pretty close.....might have to tweek the tip weight a little and you might try to stick the little set screw type weight they give you in the middle hole....just make sure you red lock tite it. PM me if you need help dialing in this set up. If you are stubborn and you try it with a different helix than the two I mentioned above then please don't ask me for help.

Madmatt
 
I like the red Hauck red spring. IMO, a red yamaha spring is waay to weak for a mountain application. It does not have enough twisting force nor enough sideways force. It will be squashed like a bug once the riding gets rough and the backshift is thereafter..
 
Ok Since We Are Talking 40-10's, I Am Looking At Improving My Setup. Here Gos

I Ride 4-7000 Ft. Offtrail/boondocking/hillclimbing Etc.

02 Viper Stock Motor, Pealed Head Gasket, Reed Spacers, Stock Pipe, Can, 159"x2" With 8 Tooth Drivers. 18/19-42 Gearing (18 Now) 48/42 Helix With Green Spring, 40-10's With No Weight And Orange Pink Orange Yamaha Long Cap Spring.

The Rpms Are Spot On At Elevation And It Works Well. Backshift Is Acceptable And Can Be Adjusted Nicely With Spring Twist.

My Question To Those Who Might Know Is This.

I Had The Machine Setup For Sea Level With The Red H/c Spring With Setscrew In The Heel And I Forget Off Hand What I Had In The Middle And Tip, But The Thing Was A Rocket.
When I Moved Out West, I Went To The Orange Pink Orange Which Is Way Soft So As To Not Spin The Track Out(which Works).

But I Cant Run Any Weight In The H/c In Order To Keep My Rpm's Where They Need To Be.

So If I Go Back To The Red Hc Spring And Add Weight To Lower The Engagement, Will I Be Able To Pull The Rpm?

Anybody Else Running Stock Motor And Pipe At 4-7000 Ft. With 40-10's?
 
It does, but the angles are usually quite a bit different.

What is your sled doing that you don't like/want to improve?? Maybe that is the way to approach this. It's possible you already said, but I'm too lazy to reread the whole thread.
 
I just checked out my roller, and it indeed does have a helix -- it appears to be a very shallow straight one, as I said earlier. Maybe this weekend I'll pull it apart to check out the angle and spring wind....



I think will also get a press and pull the primary apart also. I'll try adding 1 more gram of weight to each heel for a tad lower engagement. I think that's the place for me to start.



As I also said earlier, It over revs a bit.....




Mike
 
bolin22 said:
You Should Be Able To Adjust The Weight In The Heel Without Removing The Weight
Click to expand...




You mean I can adjust the heel weight without pulling the primary?



I was wondering about that -- you can see one of the 3 arms right inthe window!
 
Yes You Should Be Able To See The Allan Screw In The Heel And Access It By Rotating The Clutch Around For Each Of The Three.
 
I have and still use the 40-10's in my 780 srx at elevation. Red spring, about 2 or 3 grams in the heel, rest empty, Team roller secondary with a 46 - 34 (I think) helix. Works really well for how I ride the sled.
 
Does It Want To Spin The Track Easily With The Red Spring? I Was Using The Orange Pink Orange For A Nice Soft Engagement To Keep The Track From Spinning Out. I Like The Soft Engagement For Mountain Application, But I Think It Would Pull Harder If I Put More Weight To It.
 
if ur running a 159 track then what u worried about spinning out clutch it for 4000 - 4500 engagement and ride , u are going 2 sacrafice some top rpms 2 keep ur low engage ment period. Al
 
Okay everybody, both clutches are off the Mt Viper and here's what I found:



Primary:


HC 40-10's with Red spring. My weights are all f'ed up, but it is working relatively well, except my engagement is high and I have a slight over-rev on trail.......


Heel: Virtually no weights -- Just a small screw and one small washer. Me thinks this explains the high engagement!


Oh, and the heel screws are red loctited in there and cannot be removed, but that is another story....



Mid and Tip: 5 to 5.5 grams a piece with the screws and washers in place as they are.....




Seconday:

A roller secondary allegedly custom made by a guy from Brainerd, MN. He took a Viper stock seconday and modified it into a roller clutch.


Ryan B: Ever heard of this guy, being that's your area there? The guy works out of his garage I guess. But it is a nice secondary and works well. Right now I have a 42 straight cut helix in there, but i also have a 38 straight cut helix i could put in there, if I ever went to higher elevations/ deeper snow than MN....



The spring is a yellow spring. Anybody have any idea about this yellow secondary roller clutch spring? I know nothing about it. He gave me a red secondary spring also for the roller, but didn't say when to use that one, if ever....


Also, my secondary wind is 3-3.......




So my conundrum: My clutching is pretty good right now, except my engagement is 4800 rpm or so as i recall from last spring, a tad higher than I want. Also, I overrev on the trial (9400-9500 rpm)...



I run SLP triple pipes, so peak is 8900 - 9000 rpm's, so it overrevs a tad in my book.....




Anyone have a HC 40-10 kit lying around to sell? My arms are sort of toast being that I cannot adjust the heel now!




thx all!




Mike
 
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Hard to say on "a guy from Brainerd working out of his garage." We've got a few of those types in the area. Some pretty well known, some not so much. Maybe put a picture of it up and someone will recognize it or tell you whose kit it was originally.
 
My opinion

I would change to the 38 degree helix now. Heat the weights with a torch and take out the heel screws with pliers......you don't have to get the heel very hot & the Locktite will let go easily. Don't overheat the bushing. Now put a long allen with 5 washers in the heel. Add a washer to the middle hole and two washer to the tip. Try it. If you are still overreving then put the steeper helix back in and try that.

Matt
 
extremelyfastmax4 said:
if ur running a 159 track then what u worried about spinning out clutch it for 4000 - 4500 engagement and ride , u are going 2 sacrafice some top rpms 2 keep ur low engage ment period. Al
Click to expand...
AL:
SPINNING OUT= STUCK

A 159 WILL SPIN OUT AND DIG JUST AS A 141 OR 121 FOR THAT MATTER. THE OBJECT IS TO BE ABLE TO INITIATE MOVEMENT WITHOUT DIGGING A HOLE AND WITHOUT HAVING TO COBB THE THROTTLE.

ANYBODY TRIED THE YELLOW HAUCK SPRING? I HAVE A FRIEND THAT USED TO RUN THAT WITH THE H/C IN HIS SRX AT ELEVATION AND HE SAID IT WORKED GREAT. HE SAID THAT IT IS STIFF (LIKE THE RED H/C) BUT SUPER SHORT....JUST A TOUCH LONGER THAN A YAMAHA SHORT CAP SPRING. SO THE SHORT LENGTH WILL KEEP THE PRELOAD AND ENGAGEMENT DOWN, BUT I SHOULD BE ABLE TO LOAD UP THE MIDDLE A BIT WITH THE STIFFER FINAL.
 
Madmatt said:
I would change to the 38 degree helix now. Heat the weights with a torch and take out the heel screws with pliers......you don't have to get the heel very hot & the Locktite will let go easily. Don't overheat the bushing. Now put a long allen with 5 washers in the heel. Add a washer to the middle hole and two washer to the tip. Try it. If you are still overreving then put the steeper helix back in and try that.

Matt
Click to expand...








Thx MadMatt, great tips!!!!!!



I am gonna switch over to the 38 degree helix in the roller and put away the 42. What twist/ wind do you recommend with the 38 in there? Also, I'm trying to ahold of the guy I bought it from to see what the difference is between this yellow spring (on there) and this red spring. I'm thinking the yellow spring is for around here and the red spring is for the Mountains with a higher spring rate, but I dunno.......



Also, thx for the advise on removing the heel/ shoulder weights with pliers and heat. I will try it. I sure hope it works b/c otherwise I'm gonna have to buy another set of 'Clickers.... :o|



Thx again!!!!




Mike
 
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