I am wondering how Bender racing measures power, probably a land-and-sea water brake?bufalobob said:
Thanks
livewire_101proof
Member
Nice points buffalobob. also, i heard a while back, (probably a year or 2 ago) that tim wasnt doing the work at bender anymore. not sure how much truth was in it though. i know ive always been pleased with anything from bender when tim was doing it. ive never had one prepped by them either, just buying parts and doing it myself and ive always been very happy. any time im gettind any kind of performance parts they are one of the ones on the top of the list (helps since i dont live far from them though) except for suspension and clutching, not that bender aint good but i like dealing with bruce at pioneer and its even closer for me.
ive seen others get porting though and it made them good for on the throttle for the whole strip, but in trail conditions when you got out of it and back on the throttle it wasnt as responsive gettin back into it. i would think that unless you wanna race all the time it wouldnt be worth it. a well set up srx is no slouch. spend alot of time in clutching and gearing and you will already take some respect from alot of unsespecting people. takes a hell of a sled to get in front of mine and mine dont have alot done to it.
ive seen others get porting though and it made them good for on the throttle for the whole strip, but in trail conditions when you got out of it and back on the throttle it wasnt as responsive gettin back into it. i would think that unless you wanna race all the time it wouldnt be worth it. a well set up srx is no slouch. spend alot of time in clutching and gearing and you will already take some respect from alot of unsespecting people. takes a hell of a sled to get in front of mine and mine dont have alot done to it.
Hi Ottawaair, being a consumer myself,in my opinion and expieriance, I would be looking to ask people who actually have had engines done by a paticular builder as there are many builders out there. You want to pay attention to real world results, and people who have actually had work done to thier own paticular sled, not a buddy's. Too many factors add up when comparing a buddy's sled, you never know how well it was set up or even if you have all the information on work done,specs,etc.Too many varibles to pollute the informational value.
Even taking the step further,
1.)What kind of customer service do they have? how about after you have given them your $$?
2.)Are they willing to talk to you to help you dial a sled in or does it cost more $$?
3.)Are they willing to give set up advice or does it require a visa card number?
4.)Are they willing/able to diagnose clutching/set up problems and help you solve tuning issues that get frustrating to some people in the field?
5.) Is there any help in the future, after the sale?, how about if there is a failure of some sort, do they back up thier work and help?
The internet is a great tool and you can find out alot by searching, this site has boat loads of information right here on good and bad expierances with companys. Thats what this site and forums are for, sharing knowledge and gaining insight ,sometimes thru others misfortunes with a company as a end result. I know I certainly want to know if a company has pulled stuff on other people so I avoid getting the same thing done to me.
Since it seems to be a new sport of naming and discrediting someone I figured I would post the real information for you to see/read for yourself and then make your own decision. The story jttssrx is telling you is about Srxmagic,Tyler. First off, jttssrx is a friend who I have built a engine for previously, a little 700 . I told him he'd have around 190hp when done, so he took it to an INDEPENDANT DYNO facility not associated with the builder, in another state and made a solid 185hp, so he got what he was told he would get,not excuses. So he may seem biased with good reason.
((A easy way to see if you have been buffaloed into a sales pitch or if you got what you were sold, is watch the tach. It doesnt lie if you keep the same clutching, any increase in hp will simply result in higher then stock rpm,plain and simple.))
Srxmagic was so pleased he put a video on here after his engine was actually "ported" and not just polished. His ports were raised where necessary,widened where needed, instead of polished like chrome, but they sure were pretty to look at before!.
BTW- it doesnt make anymore power to polish them, it takes the correct port heigth and right radius in corners and floor contours to make power, so the polishing is just eye candy.
threads of concern to this threads comments:
http://www.totallyamaha.net/forums/showthread.php?t=42520
http://www.totallyamaha.net/forums/showthread.php?t=47131
It all boils down to what you want and what you get for your money, hopefully youll find the right balance between the 2.
As a member here, I will help anyone the best I can, no matter where you get your work done, it doesnt really matter there will be no hard feelings. If you need help to get it to perform to your desired level, just ask!
Even taking the step further,
1.)What kind of customer service do they have? how about after you have given them your $$?
2.)Are they willing to talk to you to help you dial a sled in or does it cost more $$?
3.)Are they willing to give set up advice or does it require a visa card number?
4.)Are they willing/able to diagnose clutching/set up problems and help you solve tuning issues that get frustrating to some people in the field?
5.) Is there any help in the future, after the sale?, how about if there is a failure of some sort, do they back up thier work and help?
The internet is a great tool and you can find out alot by searching, this site has boat loads of information right here on good and bad expierances with companys. Thats what this site and forums are for, sharing knowledge and gaining insight ,sometimes thru others misfortunes with a company as a end result. I know I certainly want to know if a company has pulled stuff on other people so I avoid getting the same thing done to me.
Since it seems to be a new sport of naming and discrediting someone I figured I would post the real information for you to see/read for yourself and then make your own decision. The story jttssrx is telling you is about Srxmagic,Tyler. First off, jttssrx is a friend who I have built a engine for previously, a little 700 . I told him he'd have around 190hp when done, so he took it to an INDEPENDANT DYNO facility not associated with the builder, in another state and made a solid 185hp, so he got what he was told he would get,not excuses. So he may seem biased with good reason.
((A easy way to see if you have been buffaloed into a sales pitch or if you got what you were sold, is watch the tach. It doesnt lie if you keep the same clutching, any increase in hp will simply result in higher then stock rpm,plain and simple.))
Srxmagic was so pleased he put a video on here after his engine was actually "ported" and not just polished. His ports were raised where necessary,widened where needed, instead of polished like chrome, but they sure were pretty to look at before!.
BTW- it doesnt make anymore power to polish them, it takes the correct port heigth and right radius in corners and floor contours to make power, so the polishing is just eye candy.
threads of concern to this threads comments:
http://www.totallyamaha.net/forums/showthread.php?t=42520
http://www.totallyamaha.net/forums/showthread.php?t=47131
It all boils down to what you want and what you get for your money, hopefully youll find the right balance between the 2.
As a member here, I will help anyone the best I can, no matter where you get your work done, it doesnt really matter there will be no hard feelings. If you need help to get it to perform to your desired level, just ask!
I was lead to believe that polishing the ports can actually hinder performance. Something to do with the rough texture of the ports assisting in the atomization of the fuel???
bufalobob
Member
kennedy:
bender tunes @ dynotech on jim's superflow 901. he is currently converting the dyno to the upgraded 902 electronics. probably one of the most knowledgeable dyno operators anywhere!! trail riders to most of the big names in snowmobile racing use jim's services.
livewire:
tim hasn't owned bender racing for many years. it is owned by rich daly of dyno port fame. however, mike & heath are still there along w/ brian the port miester. not very many people as good as bruce w/ anything snowmobile related. he does all my shock work. a srx trail ported by a competent port miester is actually more responsive on the trail than a stock motor & a lot more fun to drive.
bob
bender tunes @ dynotech on jim's superflow 901. he is currently converting the dyno to the upgraded 902 electronics. probably one of the most knowledgeable dyno operators anywhere!! trail riders to most of the big names in snowmobile racing use jim's services.
livewire:
tim hasn't owned bender racing for many years. it is owned by rich daly of dyno port fame. however, mike & heath are still there along w/ brian the port miester. not very many people as good as bruce w/ anything snowmobile related. he does all my shock work. a srx trail ported by a competent port miester is actually more responsive on the trail than a stock motor & a lot more fun to drive.
bob
The Numbers don't lie My 700 made 185HP. take a look at the numbers made by other people running larger bore sleds done by other company's.
IMHO:
All the performance shops are limited in their ability to build Horsepower on our stock sized 700cc SRXs by the OEM pipes. We all are aware of the fact that Yamaha designed superb pipes for the stock sled, but our SRX pipes are designed to run within the stock engines porting optimum RPM band...8300-8500 RPM.
Since: Horsepower = Torque X RPM
-----------------
5252
example: torque = 100
RPM = 8500
therefore: 100 X 8500
-------------
5252
HP= 161hp
From the above example, you can see that using the stock pipes RPM limit of [approx]8500 you would be wasting your time by using port timing that is most effective at a higher RPM...you most likely would lose Horse Power, this is where the challenge lies with the porting gurus making cylinder head squish band clearances + widths + angles,compression ratios, transfer port timing, exhaust port widths and shapes, and ignition timing curves becoming all so important as raising torque within the pipes useable RPM band is where the horsepower will primarily have to come from. You really need someone who knows and has extensive real world experience to port these sleds when staying with the stock pipes and engine size.
Of al the sleds I have modded and set up my 2002 SRX has been the most challenging to improve upon...my "Red Head" SX tripples, 650 Polaris Indys,440 SRXs, Vmax4s, ect responded well to every common performance improvement I added because I was not so RPM limited as I could raise the operating RPM by adding aftermarket pipes.
As its been previously stated, all the porting + after market parts are still of little use without proper tuning, testing, and clutching.
JM.02c
Its all about the Math!
All the performance shops are limited in their ability to build Horsepower on our stock sized 700cc SRXs by the OEM pipes. We all are aware of the fact that Yamaha designed superb pipes for the stock sled, but our SRX pipes are designed to run within the stock engines porting optimum RPM band...8300-8500 RPM.
Since: Horsepower = Torque X RPM
-----------------
5252
example: torque = 100
RPM = 8500
therefore: 100 X 8500
-------------
5252
HP= 161hp
From the above example, you can see that using the stock pipes RPM limit of [approx]8500 you would be wasting your time by using port timing that is most effective at a higher RPM...you most likely would lose Horse Power, this is where the challenge lies with the porting gurus making cylinder head squish band clearances + widths + angles,compression ratios, transfer port timing, exhaust port widths and shapes, and ignition timing curves becoming all so important as raising torque within the pipes useable RPM band is where the horsepower will primarily have to come from. You really need someone who knows and has extensive real world experience to port these sleds when staying with the stock pipes and engine size.
Of al the sleds I have modded and set up my 2002 SRX has been the most challenging to improve upon...my "Red Head" SX tripples, 650 Polaris Indys,440 SRXs, Vmax4s, ect responded well to every common performance improvement I added because I was not so RPM limited as I could raise the operating RPM by adding aftermarket pipes.
As its been previously stated, all the porting + after market parts are still of little use without proper tuning, testing, and clutching.
JM.02c
Its all about the Math!
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bufalobob
Member
jtssrx:
that's a bit on the low side for a mod 700. my bender IS700 srx made 191 h.p. (bored 33's). w/ bigger carbs would be around 200h.p.. HTG's 700 (big carbs) made 210 h.p.. btw, below is from dynotech's blog.
"3/17 Monday Buffalo Bob and Bender Racing will do it today 800 big bore sxr was ok with 157hp, but the 835 Bender SRX w/ dynoport pipes made an incredible 121lb/ft and 195hp for 12 seconds on pump gas."
bob
that's a bit on the low side for a mod 700. my bender IS700 srx made 191 h.p. (bored 33's). w/ bigger carbs would be around 200h.p.. HTG's 700 (big carbs) made 210 h.p.. btw, below is from dynotech's blog.
"3/17 Monday Buffalo Bob and Bender Racing will do it today 800 big bore sxr was ok with 157hp, but the 835 Bender SRX w/ dynoport pipes made an incredible 121lb/ft and 195hp for 12 seconds on pump gas."
bob
jabber800
New member
jtssrx When I am talking about how a port job looks I am not talking about the polish on a port.. I'm looking at tooling marks, consistancy of port shapes, heights etc.. As for follow up on work and needing credit cards I called Mr Viper myself looking for info on my 780 BB that he built for another Ty member (TURBOR). I did not get any info what so ever. Did I post this on the net trying to discredit Mr Viper NO! Not every customer will always be pleased, and when you have done as much work for as many people as Bender has, there will be a few people unsatisfied. Bender Racing has been around for along time. There's a reason for that!!
This is my personal experience with engine porting
I won a TY contest that was a port job by mrviper700 (Don). Even tho I was not paying him for the port job Don helped me out with setting the sled up. My Viper gained rpm after the porting. Don helped me with clutching to dail in back in. I added a few performance parts as well. All the info he gave me was "bang on". Later on I had motor issues not related to the porting but to my own lack of knowledge.I posted my troubles on here and Don contacted me on his own to help me out.
Is Don the best in the biz? I don't know.I'm not a racer, I'm a trail rider. What I do know is that his porting job on my sled made a positive difference on the performance of my sled and he was more than willing to share his knowledge with me and his advice always worked.
I can not comment on the other engine builders out there because I have never used them but I'm sure they are all capable of doing good work.
I won a TY contest that was a port job by mrviper700 (Don). Even tho I was not paying him for the port job Don helped me out with setting the sled up. My Viper gained rpm after the porting. Don helped me with clutching to dail in back in. I added a few performance parts as well. All the info he gave me was "bang on". Later on I had motor issues not related to the porting but to my own lack of knowledge.I posted my troubles on here and Don contacted me on his own to help me out.
Is Don the best in the biz? I don't know.I'm not a racer, I'm a trail rider. What I do know is that his porting job on my sled made a positive difference on the performance of my sled and he was more than willing to share his knowledge with me and his advice always worked.
I can not comment on the other engine builders out there because I have never used them but I'm sure they are all capable of doing good work.
bufalobob said:
my sled would have made well over 200 hp at Dyno tech. My sled made 185 on Carl Galloway's dyno which is know to read 10 to 15% lower then Dyno tech.
Explain something to me Bob how come non of these 190 HP bender sleds ever ran worth a sht? Explain to me why Allen ulmer sold his bender 700 improver and had Darcy Build the one I bought. Explain to me why my sled as an improved ran extreemly better Numbers then the 191hp bender motor Allen had???
You know people don't race on the Dyno Bob. You can talk bender/Dyno Tech numbers but at the end of the day the results speak for themselves.
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jabber800 said:
The Question that needs to be asked is why has Bender been owned by three people. You know just because the company had Tim benders name on the door doesn't mean it's the same thing!!!!
bufalobob
Member
jtssrx:
why did you edit your post?? below is what you originally posted!! i have bolded what you edited out.
"my sled would have made well over 200 hp at Dyno tech. My sled made 185 on Carl Galloway's dyno which is know to read 10 to 15% lower then Dyno tech. My motor,carb, and Pipe combination actually made 205hp at dyno tech when Don took his there."
bender's IS700 srx & viper race sleds always were very competitive & won many big races. i don't have the list in front of me but it is long & extensive. my own bender IS700 was record holder & undefeated 4 years in a row @ NBSSR @ ISR weight of 750#.
yes you do race the dyno. just ask any successful racer. D&D, HTG, DYNOPORT, CPR, etc., etc. all have there own in house dyno's & use them regularly. where do they go when they have finished there testing to confirm the results...dynotech.
bob
why did you edit your post?? below is what you originally posted!! i have bolded what you edited out.
"my sled would have made well over 200 hp at Dyno tech. My sled made 185 on Carl Galloway's dyno which is know to read 10 to 15% lower then Dyno tech. My motor,carb, and Pipe combination actually made 205hp at dyno tech when Don took his there."
bender's IS700 srx & viper race sleds always were very competitive & won many big races. i don't have the list in front of me but it is long & extensive. my own bender IS700 was record holder & undefeated 4 years in a row @ NBSSR @ ISR weight of 750#.
yes you do race the dyno. just ask any successful racer. D&D, HTG, DYNOPORT, CPR, etc., etc. all have there own in house dyno's & use them regularly. where do they go when they have finished there testing to confirm the results...dynotech.
bob
This is like the blind man pissing in the wind, saying it's all coming back to me now.......... Lets stop all the buffalo and get beyond this...... or I'll moderate it.........WHAM...
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bufalobob said:
I edited it becuase it's not right to drag Don in to this.
This post is going no where. You love bender. Great
ExpertXViper
New member
OHHH yea well my sled is faster than all of yours and its all stock!!!!!!!So there........ are we done pissing yet?????
IMO......Id use Don aka "MrViper700", 1 major reason why is customer service/care. He's always willing to help out if you havent notice, he supplies alot of info and knowledge that he really dosent have to supply but does. Which I never see any Bender Racing gurus on here helping people out with questions and such, besides Blowby Bob and all I ever read of his is dynotech this and bender that. My past experiences with trying to purchase Bender products from Bender taught me never to deal with them again, very poor customer service for a simple parts order.
2nd reason why Id use Don, hes self-employed which I try to send any of my work that I need done regardless what it may be to "TRUSTED" small business owners vs the any large business.
IMO......Id use Don aka "MrViper700", 1 major reason why is customer service/care. He's always willing to help out if you havent notice, he supplies alot of info and knowledge that he really dosent have to supply but does. Which I never see any Bender Racing gurus on here helping people out with questions and such, besides Blowby Bob and all I ever read of his is dynotech this and bender that. My past experiences with trying to purchase Bender products from Bender taught me never to deal with them again, very poor customer service for a simple parts order.
2nd reason why Id use Don, hes self-employed which I try to send any of my work that I need done regardless what it may be to "TRUSTED" small business owners vs the any large business.
Mac
Member
I would agree that Don has helped many TY members set up and solve many Srx and Viper stock and modified Sleds. I also recommend his machine work, clutching, tuning, and customer service. Everyone who reads this board knows that modified parts that bolt onto a sled are only half the setup. Don takes the time to explain the second half that's the jetting, clutching, compression, porting, fuel requirements and more.
The message board has not quite been the same without his opinions. He only posts here when the facts and info become very distorted and incorrect. Don I know your reading this please post more often.
I also wonder why someone over at bender does not read this board from time to time and sell product answer questions. They specialize in Yamaha stuff. Why no participation here? ---Mac---
The message board has not quite been the same without his opinions. He only posts here when the facts and info become very distorted and incorrect. Don I know your reading this please post more often.
I also wonder why someone over at bender does not read this board from time to time and sell product answer questions. They specialize in Yamaha stuff. Why no participation here? ---Mac---
Ride.Race.Live
New member
havent had bad luck with bender... but have heard problems... but every company does get disgruntled employees... you cant possibly please everyone.
Ive had more then I can ask for of help from mrviper.... bought my srx from a previous member that had headwork done... and Don follows his works weather or not its the original owner... and has helped me through out any questions... I personally prefer small businesses over big ones... smaller businesses have a smaller base customer care and you have better service that way... They are able to spend more time and help you out... weather its based on their products or not... I havent had any help from larger companies in this way without any costs included. or getting pushed into a sale.
I wasnt around when Mrviper was a full time poster here... but I have followed his threads and posts closely and has provided me with loads of info that is usefull...
just my .02c
Ive had more then I can ask for of help from mrviper.... bought my srx from a previous member that had headwork done... and Don follows his works weather or not its the original owner... and has helped me through out any questions... I personally prefer small businesses over big ones... smaller businesses have a smaller base customer care and you have better service that way... They are able to spend more time and help you out... weather its based on their products or not... I havent had any help from larger companies in this way without any costs included. or getting pushed into a sale.
I wasnt around when Mrviper was a full time poster here... but I have followed his threads and posts closely and has provided me with loads of info that is usefull...
just my .02c
You know it's cool to like what you want it's another thing to shamelessly post over and over again trying to push people to buy from a company.
What I want to know is do you work for Bender? bufalobob
If so I was not aware and it would be a very good thing to contact me and let it be known or you could be seen as a aftermarket company that works for bender trying to drum up business under the radar.
If so I was not aware and it would be a very good thing to contact me and let it be known or you could be seen as a aftermarket company that works for bender trying to drum up business under the radar.