42 is about as low as you can go on the bottom. 40 will be a higher ratio. You can drop teeth on the top to get lower. On the long tracks guys often will run as deep as 19/42. Some go to 18, but some then run into issues with the 18 surviving. Think of it like a bicycle. The front sprocket set is your top gear. The smaller it is the easier to peddle. The bottom gear is your rear set of sprockets. The bigger it is the easier it is to peddle.
Gerryjackman
New member
Ok so am I able to go up to say 44
I don't think a 44 fits in the Yamaha case. Might get a 43 in there. Personally I'd just drop the top down.
Gerryjackman
New member
K I think ill get a 19 do you think it's a 13w judging by my pics ? I counted and I think there is 13 in between them I didn't cout when it was off just from the pics but I'm pretty sure. Now do I order a yamaha one or just a non hyvo 19 tooth
42 tooth is max on your chain case. 13 plate chains and 15 plate chains are exactly that, the total number of all the plates and yes, including the outside ones.
in my reference to performance, i was referring to the sleds ability to perform off trail. changing the approach angle on the skid to resemble the 2000 and up geometry is what you should be after.
from the pic, it was hard to tell, but the front skid mount bolt did not appear far enough back to be up with the newer geometry. just guessing, but it appears as though it was moved back to compensate for the drop and roll.
in my reference to performance, i was referring to the sleds ability to perform off trail. changing the approach angle on the skid to resemble the 2000 and up geometry is what you should be after.
from the pic, it was hard to tell, but the front skid mount bolt did not appear far enough back to be up with the newer geometry. just guessing, but it appears as though it was moved back to compensate for the drop and roll.
Gerryjackman
New member
Imnot sure what you mean by approach angle well maybe I do I just have no idea where you want to be with something like that ill take closer pics isn't there only one spot your track can sit because the drive axle determines that? Sorry if I'm not understanding bare with me. I'm not even sure what 2000 and up even look like
Gerryjackman
New member
jasburrito
New member
I bought chain and sprockets from guy parting mountain sled. He had it geared 17/39.
pic #3, thats way to steep of an approach angle. kinda what i thought, the front mount was brought back for the drop and roll but the approach angle was never addressed, actually looks worse than the original angle. thats a recipe for trenching for sure. do you happen to have an angle finder, the sweep dial kind? around 17 degrees is what your shooting for, yours is closer to if not over 30 degrees.Gerryjackman said:
pic #2 clearly shows the front mount being moved back apprx 2.5" from its original hole, about what you gained with the drop and roll and you achieved nothing except tunnel clearance at the front of the track.
theres a couple of options to correct whats been f'ed up, but i am not sure of your abilities. first would be to rid the skid of the rail extensions and relocate the entire skid back and perhaps needing shorter extensions. how long are those now?
second would be to relocate both the skid in the tunnel along with the arms in the rails. lots of math needed here, along with a little bit of skill. whats your comfort level?
the pretty much "no brainer" way out is a skid swap from a 2000 and up mtn max or a 2003 mtn viper, but again you will need to do some relocating in the tunnel. i have most all the dimensions needed if your up to the challenge for any of the options i have mentioned.
"approach angle" is the angle at which the track enters the tunnel at the front of the skid. the lower the angle, the better the sled will get up on and stay on top of the snow. the steeper the angle, the more the sled wants to push and bury itself. use your hand as an example with snow or water. a flatter angle of the hand will cross smoothly over the snow or water, a steeper angle of the hand will "push" the snow or water. fill up the sink or tub if you havent any snow and it will all make sense.
Last edited:
Gerryjackman
New member
Where do I measure from ? I am not familiar with much of what you are saying but I am more than capable of doing it, with time and patience, one thing though I want to look at a 155" so I may wait to mess around with that until then, but I still don't understand how you can just move it back or what is all involved in doing this what route would you recommend I take? Does the drive axle still stay put then I manoeuvre the skid around?
drive axle stays. if your measure question refers to the angle, simply put an angle finder on the top of the track(inside) just about where the rail caps are.
trying my best to relate this to you in understandable terms, so lets try this: if you have a grasp on the approach angle, picture the skid being moved back thus pulling the track back and changing the "bend" at the front of the track. yours now is running almost straight up(go back to the hand reference posted previously), you want it to be more "flat". picture a blanket draped between legs(blanket being your track, legs being your skid). you will have a big droop in the blanket(approach angle). now hold the blanket tight atop your legs(one leg being the drive shaft) and move your legs farther apart, effectively flattening out the blanket(approach angle). moving your legs apart is the equivalent of moving the skid back. hope that made sense, it was an off the cuff analogy.
the suspension doesnt care where its at in the skid as long as its original geometry is maintained, that being the distance between the mounting points. the distance back from the driveshaft is directly proportionate to track length and mounting points.
i would first experiment with relocating the skid back and ridding the rail extensions(you need to measure those to calculate the skid relocate). once you reconfigure the skid in the tunnel to alter the approach angle, from there its just basic math to get to 155.
i would have done that set up completely different. someone put alot of time and effort in the drop and roll(been there, done that a few times) and failed to take advantage of their efforts. but, in the long term, with the d&r, once you get all the bugs worked out, you will have lots of room for a 2.5" lug on a 155. without it you would be set on 2" max.
your sled will still suck as a mtn sled as its too nose heavy, too low in the front, and the ski stance is too wide, but all those negatives can be addressed, except the weight penalty(for the most part), with the addition of other oem parts.
trying my best to relate this to you in understandable terms, so lets try this: if you have a grasp on the approach angle, picture the skid being moved back thus pulling the track back and changing the "bend" at the front of the track. yours now is running almost straight up(go back to the hand reference posted previously), you want it to be more "flat". picture a blanket draped between legs(blanket being your track, legs being your skid). you will have a big droop in the blanket(approach angle). now hold the blanket tight atop your legs(one leg being the drive shaft) and move your legs farther apart, effectively flattening out the blanket(approach angle). moving your legs apart is the equivalent of moving the skid back. hope that made sense, it was an off the cuff analogy.
the suspension doesnt care where its at in the skid as long as its original geometry is maintained, that being the distance between the mounting points. the distance back from the driveshaft is directly proportionate to track length and mounting points.
i would first experiment with relocating the skid back and ridding the rail extensions(you need to measure those to calculate the skid relocate). once you reconfigure the skid in the tunnel to alter the approach angle, from there its just basic math to get to 155.
i would have done that set up completely different. someone put alot of time and effort in the drop and roll(been there, done that a few times) and failed to take advantage of their efforts. but, in the long term, with the d&r, once you get all the bugs worked out, you will have lots of room for a 2.5" lug on a 155. without it you would be set on 2" max.
your sled will still suck as a mtn sled as its too nose heavy, too low in the front, and the ski stance is too wide, but all those negatives can be addressed, except the weight penalty(for the most part), with the addition of other oem parts.
Gerryjackman
New member
Actually makes perfect sense to me appreciate the creativity. So do I have to relocate all six bolts that hold the skid up? If possible I would like to know the measurement an calculation side of this, another thing I'm unclear of is the rail or rail extensions? I know what rails are but what measurement do I take and what part are the extensions. When you mention quick math to get to 155" what does that entail new rails and everything ? Sorry for my lack of knowledge.
I was actually very impressed with this sled when i first starting going to the mountains after about the fifth trip ive really got the hang of it and i thought it did very well considering year etc. im curious to see what performance change ill notice If you are willing to coach me through it I trust your opinions on performance change and will give it a shot.
Thanks again guys
I was actually very impressed with this sled when i first starting going to the mountains after about the fifth trip ive really got the hang of it and i thought it did very well considering year etc. im curious to see what performance change ill notice If you are willing to coach me through it I trust your opinions on performance change and will give it a shot.
Thanks again guys
the extensions themselves. measure from where the rails end and the extension begins to the end of the extension. reviewing the pictures, i dont recongnize those extensions, but based on what i have seen i will guess them to be around 5.5-6".
no new rails(yet), just the right equation on the skid relocate and yes, all the mounting points must move to maintain geometry. yours will be a bit more of a challenge mathematically.
if you think it off roads well now, wait until you get things set back there similar to the newer sleds, you should really be impressed.
didnt mean to sound like i was putting down your sled, i have been trying to make a viable mtn sled out of my 98 srx since 99. learned alot along the way.
no new rails(yet), just the right equation on the skid relocate and yes, all the mounting points must move to maintain geometry. yours will be a bit more of a challenge mathematically.
if you think it off roads well now, wait until you get things set back there similar to the newer sleds, you should really be impressed.
didnt mean to sound like i was putting down your sled, i have been trying to make a viable mtn sled out of my 98 srx since 99. learned alot along the way.
Gerryjackman
New member
Oh ya I compeletly understand, well I am willing to give it a shot is there a place I can find the geometry and what it needs to be, I really don't know where to begin but I can give it my best shot it's basically gonna stretch my track out and make it longer in theory I'm assuming. I guess I just need to know how it all works. Thanks!
i have all the numbers needed to relocate the skid in two variations. assuming the stock msrx 136. rails are used, as mentioned, you need to figure out what was used for rail extensions to get to where your at now with the 144 your currently running.
for starters, you need to find the original front mount hole. its located forward of the steering hoop mount at the tunnel and theres a plug on the belly pan that would have been for access to that original bolt.
i can see your front arm is now mounted just behind the steering hoop, looks to be about 2.5" or less. this number will equate to the amount of roll given to the chaincase. your extensions should measure about 8" if not 7.5". your extensions in the pictures appear shorter than that.
for starters, you need to find the original front mount hole. its located forward of the steering hoop mount at the tunnel and theres a plug on the belly pan that would have been for access to that original bolt.
i can see your front arm is now mounted just behind the steering hoop, looks to be about 2.5" or less. this number will equate to the amount of roll given to the chaincase. your extensions should measure about 8" if not 7.5". your extensions in the pictures appear shorter than that.
Gerryjackman
New member
Gerryjackman
New member
The rail extensions are welded and added on I'm assuming some custom work along the line I don't know where the hole used to be for the axle so I'm not sure where to measure from. I also cannot see the hole the front arm used to go in more forward than what's existing, I'm wondering if because the tunnel may be made for a d&r it's an ekholm tunnel definitely not stock I don't think
thats some pretty creative work. not sure why, but oh well. for now this job just became alot more difficult. its going to take some time to sort out whats up with that skid. pics #2, #4 and #6 seem to suggest some alterations at the front of the rails as well.
figured the front bolt out, it was moved back for the d&r, but i am clueless as to whats been done to the rest of that skid. i am seeing alot of things not adding up.
not sure i can help you with what you have there, but i can try. it may behoove you to search for a used skid from any mtn max 2000 and up, or even one from an 03 mtn viper, if you want to stay with the pro-action style. you may even consider thinking outside the box for an ac or poo skid.
if your dead set on using what you have, it may take a shot or two getting it right, based on what i am seeing. is there a way to zoom in on the pictures?
figured the front bolt out, it was moved back for the d&r, but i am clueless as to whats been done to the rest of that skid. i am seeing alot of things not adding up.
not sure i can help you with what you have there, but i can try. it may behoove you to search for a used skid from any mtn max 2000 and up, or even one from an 03 mtn viper, if you want to stay with the pro-action style. you may even consider thinking outside the box for an ac or poo skid.
if your dead set on using what you have, it may take a shot or two getting it right, based on what i am seeing. is there a way to zoom in on the pictures?
Gerryjackman
New member
I don't really have the money right now to pursue a new skid soon I may but not now I'm actually in the middle of a rebuild on the top end as well! I would like to work with what i have IF possible. Anyways I do not know how view them in full zoom from photobucket maybe I'm uploading different? I can email you the pics this may make it easier up to you, I'm completely lost with what's going on hear so I really appreciate your input. I would like to go longer if new skid is in store.
i will ponder over your situation and see if i can come up with a plan. just to refresh, your currently running a 144 track with that set up and your sure its a 144?
count the track windows and multiply by 2.52. you should have 57 windows. 141's have 56. count well.
count the track windows and multiply by 2.52. you should have 57 windows. 141's have 56. count well.