Gerryjackman
New member
I'm sure it's a 144 parked aside a buddy's 141 mm you can notice it just by a bit longer
based on the rail alterations shown in those pictures, i wouldnt take anything for granted. side by side comps between a 141 and a 144 is not an accurate measure. please count the windows or the internal drive lugs.
for what your about to attempt, the 1.5" difference is a big deal in setting the skid.
for what your about to attempt, the 1.5" difference is a big deal in setting the skid.
Gerryjackman
New member
Ok so what are windows? I'm unclear the openings where the inverted drivers hook into?
correct.
simply mark one window with a tire marker, tape or whatever, and count the windows while rotating the track. having extroverts, every window should be open.
its about to get technical in the next stage as far as measuring and relocating the skid mounts to the tunnel as well as moving things on the rails. hows your comfort level tackling these?
by moving things on the rails, i am referring to drilling new holes and moving the front arm mount points back, the shock mount moves back as well, and the front crosshaft moves.
tunnel relocate equates to moving the existing mounts back, those bolted on drop brackets have to move, you need to add some support plates, and drill new holes.
i have the dimensions you need, still finalizing based on your current track and future track. are you confident in your abilities?
simply mark one window with a tire marker, tape or whatever, and count the windows while rotating the track. having extroverts, every window should be open.
its about to get technical in the next stage as far as measuring and relocating the skid mounts to the tunnel as well as moving things on the rails. hows your comfort level tackling these?
by moving things on the rails, i am referring to drilling new holes and moving the front arm mount points back, the shock mount moves back as well, and the front crosshaft moves.
tunnel relocate equates to moving the existing mounts back, those bolted on drop brackets have to move, you need to add some support plates, and drill new holes.
i have the dimensions you need, still finalizing based on your current track and future track. are you confident in your abilities?
Gerryjackman
New member
Yeah I am very confident that I can do it I also work at a fabrication shop so it's easy to get brackets or fab something custom up quick, as long as I can understand what to do I'm ok with doing it.
With my future plan of a 155" is it worth it to do this? Or is that something I would have to do at that point anyway. Either way I think I would like to tackle it. Thanks for the help so far
With my future plan of a 155" is it worth it to do this? Or is that something I would have to do at that point anyway. Either way I think I would like to tackle it. Thanks for the help so far
the fact that the current extensions are welded to the rails somewhat throws a curve into the equation. i need to put some more thought into your situation based on what i am seeing from the pictures you sent me. confirming the track length on the sled now will help with my numbers.
normally on the 136 skids i use bolt on extensions and that simplifies the equation for the track length. i move the skid back in the tunnel as well as moving the suspension arms on the skid to change it to the updated geometry. your existing skid with welded extensions doesnt give you much leeway. hopefully we can come up with a solution.
to bring it to 155 without adding extensions and updating the geometry will be wading in new waters for me. your going to be the "guinea pig" and you will have to set it for the 155 as you really dont have any options to set it up differently and then do the 155. you could also consider a 153 track. with the drop and roll, you can easily clear 3" pitch drivers, vs the 2.86 pitch needed for the 155.
normally on the 136 skids i use bolt on extensions and that simplifies the equation for the track length. i move the skid back in the tunnel as well as moving the suspension arms on the skid to change it to the updated geometry. your existing skid with welded extensions doesnt give you much leeway. hopefully we can come up with a solution.
to bring it to 155 without adding extensions and updating the geometry will be wading in new waters for me. your going to be the "guinea pig" and you will have to set it for the 155 as you really dont have any options to set it up differently and then do the 155. you could also consider a 153 track. with the drop and roll, you can easily clear 3" pitch drivers, vs the 2.86 pitch needed for the 155.
Gerryjackman
New member
Ok I will count the holes tonight for you sorry about delays I have been working lots and finding it hard to find time for the ol girl. I'm also having compression issues so that doesn't help the mix. Am I gonna be looking at new drivers or can I just leave what's on there ?
what did you do as far as break in procedures with the new pistons? how many heat cycles and how did you go about it?
if you want a 155, you need to change drivers. 155's use a 2.86 pitch driver, most likely your track now is a 2.52 pitch. if your considering a 153, they require 3" pitch drivers. if you want to utilize your existing drivers, consider a 152, 156, or 159 track.
been going over the math on what you have now and the fact that someone torched on those rail extensions makes for some creativity. not really liking where things are coming out dimension wise, but if your willing to be a test pilot and make a few holes in your tunnel, i can see if it works at your expense. sonsider an anti-stab kit as your front arm will be mounted almost 14" back from the original mount hole, the one forward most of the steering hoop mount.
the most i have ever done was doing a 116 phazer to 136. works well, but not enough test time to validate. you may be better served finding some 141 or 144 rails, or a different rear skid.
if you want a 155, you need to change drivers. 155's use a 2.86 pitch driver, most likely your track now is a 2.52 pitch. if your considering a 153, they require 3" pitch drivers. if you want to utilize your existing drivers, consider a 152, 156, or 159 track.
been going over the math on what you have now and the fact that someone torched on those rail extensions makes for some creativity. not really liking where things are coming out dimension wise, but if your willing to be a test pilot and make a few holes in your tunnel, i can see if it works at your expense. sonsider an anti-stab kit as your front arm will be mounted almost 14" back from the original mount hole, the one forward most of the steering hoop mount.
the most i have ever done was doing a 116 phazer to 136. works well, but not enough test time to validate. you may be better served finding some 141 or 144 rails, or a different rear skid.
Gerryjackman
New member
Well I have actually only rode it once since I rebuilt it and came up with one cylinder pumping out 140psi long story short the guy sent me a shaved cylinder definitely not stock! Anyways when I went to break it in I fired it up let it come right up to temp at least 15 20 mins threw on my gear and rode for a while reving up to about 6000 then letting off til I come to stop did that several times then eventually brought it up to about 7-7200 with the same technique nothing hard or WOt just nice and easy it's hard to do on that srx but I have to. Then let it cool completely. i hope this sounds Bout the way itshould be done! A lot of guys say a hard break in is what to do but I guess I just don't have the balls haha.
Anyways I think ill definitely be considering the tracks that will utilize existing drivers I'm glad u said that I had no idea. What for pitch mean on the drivers anyway and how does that effect the lengths you mention?
I have an offer to purchase a 159" skid so I'm kinda debating what to do. I'm inexperienced with most things especially the track portion of these sleds but if I did decide to go 159" would I be looking at a complete rear end set up different then what you an I may try to set up ? Or will it bolt in to where you can take my track now? Sorry of that's unclear I just mean will your idea only work on a 144" or will I utilize that work being done if I go to a 159" as well
Thanks man!
Anyways I think ill definitely be considering the tracks that will utilize existing drivers I'm glad u said that I had no idea. What for pitch mean on the drivers anyway and how does that effect the lengths you mention?
I have an offer to purchase a 159" skid so I'm kinda debating what to do. I'm inexperienced with most things especially the track portion of these sleds but if I did decide to go 159" would I be looking at a complete rear end set up different then what you an I may try to set up ? Or will it bolt in to where you can take my track now? Sorry of that's unclear I just mean will your idea only work on a 144" or will I utilize that work being done if I go to a 159" as well
Thanks man!
Scott, what he is referring to is the following:
I offered to sell a complete 151" rear skid I bought supposedly out of a Mountain Viper. Turns out it was from an RX-1M (I believe). The front H arm is exactly the same length and location as the H arm from the stock Mountain Viper suspension. The 151" rails are longer and the rear arm pivot assembly (where is bolts to the rails) is 4" farther back from the front arm than the stock Mountain Viper suspension. To bolt this into a Mountain Viper, the front mount stays exactly the same. The center mount that carries the small diameter carrying idler wheels and the rear drop brackets would need to be relocated 4" farther back. Because I bought the skid under the impression it was a bolt in installation to my Mountain Viper, I was more than a little upset to find out none of the center or rear holes would work. I was changing tracks the night before I was leaving on a planned trip and I didn't have time to fabricate or relocate holes and brackets.
On the RX-1M skid, there is a cross shaft with a set of internal idler wheels that happened to be exactly 4" forward of where the rear pivot arm attached to the rails, and at the same height. I removed the idlers and moved the rear pivot arm to the idler shaft location. Now the problem is I would also need a set of holes 4" farther forward where the transfer rods bolt to the rails, and because the rail tapers down, there is nothing to drill and bolt to. I suppose I could have fabricated transfer rods that were 4" longer, but the geometry would be different and again I didn't have time to fabricate. I got around this using the transfer enhancement kit from my 144" skid. This eliminated the transfer rods altogether. When I went to put the cross shaft with internal idlers back 4” where the rear pivot arm originally attached, I saw that under compression, the relocated pivot arm might contact them. Instead I put a set of 2 bolt idler mounts I had laying around in this location with idlers on the outside of the rails. All in all it worked out pretty slick! No problems at all with binding or anything else. This is what I mentioned to you in a PM about how you can bolt an RX-1M skid up to an existing Pro-Action Mountain Viper without any fabrication. (Assuming you have or make a transfer enhancement kit.)
As well as this setup worked for me, I’m going to try a 153” skid from an M Series and make brackets that would give me a 3” setback so I’m set up for my 159” track. I’m doing this for a weight savings reason. Gerry could run my skid as a 151” or a 159” with the 4” rail extensions I have on it. Tracks USA was having a blowout on 159” Series IV tracks. You can buy a brand new track for considerably less than many used tracks I’ve seen for sale.
I agree that the welded on rail extensions look like a recipe for a lot of potential problems. I think what he was asking about is would this skid bolt directly in to his MSRX? I don’t know as I have never seen a MSRX. Are the suspension mounting points the same as a Mountain Viper with a Pro Action Suspension or a 2000 and up Mountain Max? I believe those sleds have identical mounting points. I don’t know how this compares to pre-2000 MM or MSRX. You said you had a bunch of mounting location dimensions. Perhaps you can confirm or deny the direct bolt in possibility. When I get a chance, I’ll pull my suspension and take and post some pictures of what I did to make the RX-1M skid a direct bolt in procedure.
Finally, take the length of your track and divide by the pitch. For example 136” / 2.52 = 53.9683 If you round to the nearest tenth of an inch this = 54, which is the number of windows in one revolution of the track. The goal is to end up with a whole number, as there is no such thing as a half window in a track. If you take 155"/2.52 and round, you get 61.5. This woun't work as you need a whole number. Now take 155" and divide by 2.86 and you get 54.19. Not exactly a whole # but apparently close enough to make the drivers work. 162”/3.0 = 54 windows. This is a good check, but you need to be careful as certain track lengths come in multiple pitches. For example, 141” tracks come in both a 2.52 and a 3.0 pitch. That’s why you should always take the track length and divide by the number of windows (or where a window should be of a closed every third) to come up with a pitch. You can always purchase drivers that will fit any track out there, but there is extra cost and labor involved with that. As Scott mentioned earlier, based on the year of your sled, I’d be willing to bet you have 2.52 pitch drivers, a common pitch for sleds of that era.
I offered to sell a complete 151" rear skid I bought supposedly out of a Mountain Viper. Turns out it was from an RX-1M (I believe). The front H arm is exactly the same length and location as the H arm from the stock Mountain Viper suspension. The 151" rails are longer and the rear arm pivot assembly (where is bolts to the rails) is 4" farther back from the front arm than the stock Mountain Viper suspension. To bolt this into a Mountain Viper, the front mount stays exactly the same. The center mount that carries the small diameter carrying idler wheels and the rear drop brackets would need to be relocated 4" farther back. Because I bought the skid under the impression it was a bolt in installation to my Mountain Viper, I was more than a little upset to find out none of the center or rear holes would work. I was changing tracks the night before I was leaving on a planned trip and I didn't have time to fabricate or relocate holes and brackets.
On the RX-1M skid, there is a cross shaft with a set of internal idler wheels that happened to be exactly 4" forward of where the rear pivot arm attached to the rails, and at the same height. I removed the idlers and moved the rear pivot arm to the idler shaft location. Now the problem is I would also need a set of holes 4" farther forward where the transfer rods bolt to the rails, and because the rail tapers down, there is nothing to drill and bolt to. I suppose I could have fabricated transfer rods that were 4" longer, but the geometry would be different and again I didn't have time to fabricate. I got around this using the transfer enhancement kit from my 144" skid. This eliminated the transfer rods altogether. When I went to put the cross shaft with internal idlers back 4” where the rear pivot arm originally attached, I saw that under compression, the relocated pivot arm might contact them. Instead I put a set of 2 bolt idler mounts I had laying around in this location with idlers on the outside of the rails. All in all it worked out pretty slick! No problems at all with binding or anything else. This is what I mentioned to you in a PM about how you can bolt an RX-1M skid up to an existing Pro-Action Mountain Viper without any fabrication. (Assuming you have or make a transfer enhancement kit.)
As well as this setup worked for me, I’m going to try a 153” skid from an M Series and make brackets that would give me a 3” setback so I’m set up for my 159” track. I’m doing this for a weight savings reason. Gerry could run my skid as a 151” or a 159” with the 4” rail extensions I have on it. Tracks USA was having a blowout on 159” Series IV tracks. You can buy a brand new track for considerably less than many used tracks I’ve seen for sale.
I agree that the welded on rail extensions look like a recipe for a lot of potential problems. I think what he was asking about is would this skid bolt directly in to his MSRX? I don’t know as I have never seen a MSRX. Are the suspension mounting points the same as a Mountain Viper with a Pro Action Suspension or a 2000 and up Mountain Max? I believe those sleds have identical mounting points. I don’t know how this compares to pre-2000 MM or MSRX. You said you had a bunch of mounting location dimensions. Perhaps you can confirm or deny the direct bolt in possibility. When I get a chance, I’ll pull my suspension and take and post some pictures of what I did to make the RX-1M skid a direct bolt in procedure.
Finally, take the length of your track and divide by the pitch. For example 136” / 2.52 = 53.9683 If you round to the nearest tenth of an inch this = 54, which is the number of windows in one revolution of the track. The goal is to end up with a whole number, as there is no such thing as a half window in a track. If you take 155"/2.52 and round, you get 61.5. This woun't work as you need a whole number. Now take 155" and divide by 2.86 and you get 54.19. Not exactly a whole # but apparently close enough to make the drivers work. 162”/3.0 = 54 windows. This is a good check, but you need to be careful as certain track lengths come in multiple pitches. For example, 141” tracks come in both a 2.52 and a 3.0 pitch. That’s why you should always take the track length and divide by the number of windows (or where a window should be of a closed every third) to come up with a pitch. You can always purchase drivers that will fit any track out there, but there is extra cost and labor involved with that. As Scott mentioned earlier, based on the year of your sled, I’d be willing to bet you have 2.52 pitch drivers, a common pitch for sleds of that era.
grizz- was yours a short track viper? seems like the rx mtn used the same mount points as the 2000 and up mtn max as well as the 03 mtn viper.
the msrx used the same mount points as any 121 skidded pro action sled, with the front mount being forward of the steering hoop mount to the tunnel. mtn sleds after and including 2000 had the front arm mount point rearward of the hoop mount, or around 9" back from the driveshaft.
good info on the tracks and pitch, but to further explain pitch, its the distance between the track windows center to center or you can use the inner drive lugs on the track to measure as well. his is without a doubt 2.52.
the msrx used the same mount points as any 121 skidded pro action sled, with the front mount being forward of the steering hoop mount to the tunnel. mtn sleds after and including 2000 had the front arm mount point rearward of the hoop mount, or around 9" back from the driveshaft.
good info on the tracks and pitch, but to further explain pitch, its the distance between the track windows center to center or you can use the inner drive lugs on the track to measure as well. his is without a doubt 2.52.
My sled is a 2003 Mountain Viper. I realize a short track would be completly different.
Gerryjackman
New member
Ok finally got round to counting I sorry for the delay I have 56 windows in my track hope this finishes the research thank you guys
Gerryjackman
New member
Gerryjackman
New member
That is some more pics of the parts sled I have the track on that is brand new and was told its a 144 but judging by my recent count on my current sled it may be a 141 can u tell me if the approach angle is better or anywhere where is want to be on my sled?
I was told its a 98 srx skid but it had a tunnel extention on it for a 144 (what I was told)
Anyways hope this helps
I was told its a 98 srx skid but it had a tunnel extention on it for a 144 (what I was told)
Anyways hope this helps
compare picture #4 from your parts sled to picture #19 on your sled and study the approach angle on the track. that angle on your parts sled is what you want to see on your other sled.Gerryjackman said:
more complete pictures of the parts sled skid will be needed for a further examination, but from what i see, you may want to use the skid from the parts sled in your other sled. it appears to be done right and will make things easier to transition to a longer track.
funny how the track will tell you its length. be sure you counted correctly, theres only one bar difference between the 141 and the 144. common mistake is to forget to count the first lug in the total count.
Gerryjackman
New member
Yeah I will count my parts sled when I get it back in the warm I'm positive on mine I marked the first and made sure I counted it did it over slowly 3 times, so is the parts sled the update version you see from 00 and up? I will take better pictures when it's daylight out and well go from there would it be better if I emailed them?
email them, i can see them better. and yes, the parts sleds geometry appeared corrected to 2000 and up.
Gerryjackman
New member
On I just emailed you some more keep in mind that sled doesn't have skis it's sitting on it belly pan so it is tilted forward quite a bit let me know what you think
56 windows/(drive lugs) = 141" track if in fact 2.52 pitch.
Can you find the production # molded in the track. With that We can find out for sure what track it is.
Can you find the production # molded in the track. With that We can find out for sure what track it is.