Possible quick carb cleaning on Vmax ER?

Terrence R said:
I'm putting it all back together, again. I didn't find anything. I'm ganna rip it around the yard to see how it's burning then. If it's still lean, I'll be removing the only thing that I changed about the sled, the reed spacers. Doesn't make any sense does it? Oh well, nothing else I can try. Plugs looked great before I cleaned carbs and put spacers in. Again, I really don't think the carbs are the issue. Nothing was changed in them. All cylinders burning the same. I'm going Insane trying to figure this out.
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Something to keep in mind is that yes plugs looked fine before, but so did they when you basically ran on the idle circuit to move sled into garage. "ripping around the yard" wont give you accurate plug readings. Read the "jetting-Hammer style" write up. Gives detailed direction on how to check each circuit. Knowing which circuits are good and which are lean you can then figure out what adjustments are in order.
 
Still lean. I'm just ganna have to go up in main jet sizes and lift the needles. My blood is boiling considering how many hours I've been working on this with this particular problem. Still, lean. What's the next size up for main jets? Pretty weird sizes in them now if u ask me. 136.8 and such? They couldn't have made it run right with whole number sizes? What's up with that? What sizes should I go with?
 
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There are three main "circuits" pilot, covers the lower rpms, needles, your midrange, mains, your topend. "ripping around your yard" I suspect your mostly in mid-range. Have you tested each circuit? Just throwing parts at a problem usually doesn't fix it, usually creates others. I understand the frustration but with out accurate plug/piston reads we can't help.
 
Ok. If Ripping around the yard is mostly mid range, than I need to lift my needles. Also, ripping lastnight at wot was even leaner, so main jets need to go up too. Pilot circuit must be fine cause plugs read good at idle and what not. So I'm not just guessing.

What would be a better size main? What incroments do I go up with. Ex: PTO 136.9? 140? 142. Basically, what are the next sizes? Also, does anyone know what size the Allen screws are that hold the needles in the slides? Thanx.
 
Are you trying to read jetting with brand new plugs? What Devilin is saying is it takes a while to get plugs to color up to read jetting, especially if brand new. If your sled is stock and the jets are stock chances are you are not running lean as long as all your boots and seals are in good shape. It is good you are trying to be careful, but you need to run it a little longer to really tell. Another way to see if you are safe is to look at the tops of your pistons. There is an article on that as well.

Sorry I see someone already mentioned looking at pistons.
 
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sxr70001 said:
Are you trying to read jetting with brand new plugs? What Devilin is saying is it takes a while to get plugs to color up to read jetting, especially if brand new. If your sled is stock and the jets are stock chances are you are not running lean as long as all your boots and seals are in good shape. It is good you are trying to be careful, but you need to run it a little longer to really tell. Another way to see if you are safe is to look at the tops of your pistons. There is an article on that as well.

Sorry I see someone already mentioned looking at pistons.
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Ive ran it through all circuits for long periods. I understand what you're saying, but I've already done that. Also checked the pistons out. Lastnight when going through the wot circuit, the plugs were white and the pistons were showing little metal spec like tops of the pistons.

if the needles are too low ( lean) wouldn't it also affect the main jet readings a bit? In ganna try to lift the needles and see how it looks in 5/8- wot to see. I just gatta find out which Allen key to use. I'm having a hard time finding the right one. I have been at this non stop. Believe me, I've spent time on running in all circuits.

Does anyone know the jet size incroments?
 
Terrence R said:
Thanx. But so far, terrible luck. I can't help but laugh cause I mentioned near the first of this thread that this is the exact situation that I desperately wanted to avoid. Now look at the mess I'm in.
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You have to look at everything in big picture. First off, you keep going back to it was fine before. Did you run/ride sled and it was fine? Test plugs/pistons in each circuit? Or just based on what the plugs looked like? So it may not have ben fine. Previous owner may have already moved needles the wrong way leading to this and he couldn't figure it out so he sold it. Not saying that's the deal, just a possibility. Earlier you mentioned 130 compression, This seems on the high side, maybe head gasket mod? Which requires premium fuel or it will be lean and I do not re-call if head gasket mod requires a re-jet or not. What are you running for fuel? If oil is set way to much it will also cause a lean condition. I don't have they various jet sizes memorized, retailer should have list of sizes. I believe allen is 2.5, ball style end works better.
 
Devilin AblueDress! said:
You have to look at everything in big picture. First off, you keep going back to it was fine before. Did you run/ride sled and it was fine? Test plugs/pistons in each circuit? Or just based on what the plugs looked like? So it may not have ben fine. Previous owner may have already moved needles the wrong way leading to this and he couldn't figure it out so he sold it. Not saying that's the deal, just a possibility. Earlier you mentioned 130 compression, This seems on the high side, maybe head gasket mod? Which requires premium fuel or it will be lean and I do not re-call if head gasket mod requires a re-jet or not. What are you running for fuel? If oil is set way to much it will also cause a lean condition. I don't have they various jet sizes memorized, retailer should have list of sizes. I believe allen is 2.5, ball style end works better.
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Ok thanx. You're right. I've never run the sled. So maybe it was already showing lean. The plugs did look great though, but that was during normal weather and I never got to run the sled. The 130 psi is even. The original owner did freshen the piston and rings at the first of last season ( that's what he told me anyway). Maybe he did take a layer/s off the head gasket. That would suddenly take all of this and make sense.
Will lifting the needles help with the wot section too? I gatta go buy some Allen keys. I can't find the one that I need anywhere in my kit. There seems to be 2 keys missing from my kit. The one I need for the needle lift is one of them.
 
Normal weather, keep in mind temp plays into this as well. Spot on jetting for say 32 degrees will be dangerously lean at say -10 as well would be pig rich at 70 degrees. This is due to air density. The needle will help the transition from mid to WOT but at WOT your primarily on mains. As Super1c mentioned a few pages ago back, way back when some guys lower mains to lean them out, better quality of fuel enabled this. See where your needles are and double check where oil is set at, I don't know what stock setting on oil cable is supposed to be and its not listed on the spec pages.
 
Terrence R said:
I'm not sure what's been in the sled for fuel and if any stabilizer was used cause I just purchased the sled a couple months ago. Haven't ran it yet. But one thing is for sure, I would never be stupid enough to put anything below 91 octane in any machine!
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Just re-reading thread trying to come up with another ideas for you to check. How much old fuel versus new fuel? Old stale fuel will burn lean as well, If there was much old in it did you syphon or add to it?
 
Devilin AblueDress! said:
Just re-reading thread trying to come up with another ideas for you to check. How much old fuel versus new fuel? Old stale fuel will burn lean as well, If there was much old in it did you syphon or add to it?
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I syphooned the fuel out. Got most of it out, and filled it with supreme. Thanx for all the help. You guys have helped so much. Even though the problem isn't resolved, your guy's efforts are greatly appreciated. I'm ganna try the needle lift as soon as I get new Allen keys. If that doesn't do it, I'll definitely be taking the reed spacers out and go from there.
 
http://www.totallyamaha.com/snowmobiles/aaTECH/CarbNeedles/carbneedle2.jpg


Pic from carb needle how to. Per spec sheet stock you should in position 3, center pic. Keep in mind to raise/lift needle you need to move shims/clip lower on needle. Keep us posted. I understand it can be frustrating. Unfortunately getting frustrated we often over look or miss simple things focusing on something else.
 
I have had two different 600 vmax deluxes and can confirm that 130psi is stock and excellent. Stock fuel screw is 2 turns out. Your airbox is stock, not gutted. I would ditch the reed spacers because mine seem(ed) to run fine w/o them. Your jetting is probably fine, as long as you confirmed the pilot and main jets weren't dirty; I think trying to read plugs is making you paranoid. No offense but I'm pretty sure you're not getting a good reading... you have to run for a long time at a constant throttle position and then shut it down immediately.
 
Last season I checked my plugs after a long wot lake run and they were white (really white). It may have been lean but there was no damage to the plug itself... and I put several hundred miles on it after that. They had around 500 miles on them at the point I checked them. A white plug idicates perfect jetting IMO. Run 92 octane and stabil in every tank. Knock on wood I've never blown an engine in anything.
 
P.S. That high idle is normal in my experience, as long as it comes back down within 5-10 seconds. My vmax is definitely not lean, I averaged 9mpg last weekend on hard trails and the plugs are dark brown in the center and black around the outside. This is with stock carb settings and 16F air temperature. My oil pump cable setting is the stock 23mm and it's mixing at an average rate of
44:1.
 
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Yes BR9es plugs. I don't think that seeing white plugs after a fairly long wot run is normal. Especially considering they were only tan with a white ridge around the electrode from testing the mid range. Plus, I was seeing piston flake on the piston tops. Are your Vmaxs triples too?
 
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