Pulling what's left of my hair out over this SRX!!!!!

fourbarrel

fourbarrel

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May 5, 2003
Messages
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Location
St George,New Brunswick,Canada
I'm almost at my wits end with my 01 SRX and the starting issue that just seemed to crop up this year.So far I've checked the carbs and they are spotless,the gas tank venting,spark plug caps,spark,gas lines,gas filter,and fuel pump.I took the pump off and pulled it apart on Sunday just to make sure nothing was amiss inside.After I got everything back together I fired it up to make sure it would,and it did relatively quickly,of course it was in my shed and the heat was on.Well tonight I went out after supper to see how many pulls it would take to start it;well to be honest I lost count.I pulled and pulled and check the plugs and pulled more and changed the plugs,I finally got fed up and put some gas in one cylinder to get it fired up and warmed up.
This is really baffling me because this sled NEVER acted this way last season and the only thing different or changed from last year is the load control relay kit I put on to replace the stock relay that was acting up.I'm to the point now that I think I'll put the old relay back in to see what it will do because although the relay was acting up the sled would at least start after sitting for a day or so without pulling my guts out.If that doesn't make a difference then I'm not sure what else to look at.I guess I could grab my cousins compression tester and see what's happening there.

Tonight as I was changing the plugs I checked the spark and it was full and strong,at least it looked it to me,and the plug caps are good.What am I missing?I'm just about ready to start swinging an axe handle at the walls,I really had to walk away from it earlier because I was not in a good place.:o|
 
to me its sounds something is not working properly on the choke side ......if its start right up went u put gaz in cylinder something is not doing is job ....the sled can work without the load control if im not wrong ...u can try to see at your first crank pull if u have spark.....carb bowl should stay full..so sled should start without the fuel pump if they stay full....
 
Why don't you yank the carbs off your 98 and try them on your 2001 and see if it makes a difference? Then you'll know if it is the choke/ carbs or not.
 
sasksrx said:
Why don't you yank the carbs off your 98 and try them on your 2001 and see if it makes a difference? Then you'll know if it is the choke/ carbs or not.
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no tps on the 98 but for a try on a cold start it should work ;)!
 
I don't know about your area FB but our temps have been the coldest we've seen in a long time. Mine has been a real bear to pull over this year, but it lights in 1-2 pulls cold on full choke.

Starting after adding pre-mix would suggest you aren't getting enough choke action but given your experience with these sleds I'm sure all is adjusted properly. I got nothing. Good luck.
 
The choke is adjusted to open as far as I can get it without stretching the cable and the idea to swap carbs come to me last night lying in bed so I may do that too. I converted my 98 to 00 electtonics so they do actually have a tps on them.The reeds are something else I need to check,they're V Force 3's and not the stockers.This is getting really frustrating but on the bright side I've got lots of time to work on it, we've got no snow to speak of and it's colder than a witches butt outside.
 
I've also had the carbs apart twice this winter, mosr recently about 2 weeks ago, and had everything stripped out of them.All the jets, the cboke plungers you name it, and I blew carb cleaner and comressed air through every passage I could see.If there's dirt or some kind of obstruction in them now it's in there solid.
 
Swapping the carbs is a good idea and I would also check the fuel pump pulse line.
I am not crazy about the Vforce 3s[JMO]. I had them on my SRX but removed them as I was suspect of there ability to seal properly on the carb boots and cylinders as I felt they did not match the gasket surfaces very well.
I have Boysen rage cages on my SRX and do not have "abnormal" cold starting issues.
 
Friends SRX got real hard to start, changed out the fuel pump, problem solved, his was a 98 with 9000 miles on it. Yours sounds the same because you state it starts when you put fuel in each cylinder. It could be the vacuum line as another has said also. If it starts after adding fuel to cylinders then I would replace fuel pump. My 2 cents
 
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fuel pump for a start issue???........I dont think so, think about this: The carbs have full gas levels in the bowls while sitting there from last time it ran, the needle and seat shut off the gas when the bowl is full. The engine is started via the choke or enrichner circuirt,it pulls the fuel from the fuel bowl for the choke, not the fuel pump, so unless the fuel bowl does not have gas in it, its not the fuel pump!

In this case I would be interested to look at the needle and seat in the carbs/float level or even the choke plungers seat, or reed blocks like Bob was saying. Theres something wrong but its not the pump, not quite sure where the idea the fuel pump would change the way it starts came from but it doesnt have anything to do with it starting if the gas is already in the fuel bowls of the carbs.
 
mrviper700 said:
fuel pump for a start issue???........I dont think so, snip

agreed.

snip, not quite sure where the idea the fuel pump would change the way it starts came from but it doesnt have anything to do with it starting if the gas is already in the fuel bowls of the carbs.
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I think this line of thinking may have come from Bob's post from two years ago when he was swapping pumps to address a priming issue upon first start from storage as opposed to cold soak hard start. Some may have confused his results with cold start which as you say, can't be fuel pump related.


My SRX is harder to pull over this year than in years past. But I think it has more to do with me and the cold ambients then the sled. JMHO.
 
mrviper700 said:
fuel pump for a start issue???........I dont think so, think about this: The carbs have full gas levels in the bowls while sitting there from last time it ran, the needle and seat shut off the gas when the bowl is full. The engine is started via the choke or enrichner circuirt,it pulls the fuel from the fuel bowl for the choke, not the fuel pump, so unless the fuel bowl does not have gas in it, its not the fuel pump!

In this case I would be interested to look at the needle and seat in the carbs/float level or even the choke plungers seat, or reed blocks like Bob was saying. Theres something wrong but its not the pump, not quite sure where the idea the fuel pump would change the way it starts came from but it doesnt have anything to do with it starting if the gas is already in the fuel bowls of the carbs.
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You state the bowls are full from the last time it was running. How do you know that for sure, if fuel pump is getting weak then why can't the fuel be suck back into tank with the warming of the tank and fuel being in a warm place.

Very simple test, put gas in each cylinder, if it starts and continues to run without issue then that rules everything out except fuel delivery at start up, weak pump won't pump at the rpms that occur during rope start, once running the pump has enough pull at those rpms to keep it running.

The OP stated that if he put gas in cylinder he could get it to run, which is why i'm saying it could be the fuel pump. Try putting fuel in each cylinder and report back, very simple and easy.
 
rlbock said:
You state the bowls are full from the last time it was running. How do you know that for sure, if fuel pump is getting weak then why can't the fuel be suck back into tank with the warming of the tank and fuel being in a warm place.

Very simple test, put gas in each cylinder, if it starts and continues to run without issue then that rules everything out except fuel delivery at start up, weak pump won't pump at the rpms that occur during rope start, once running the pump has enough pull at those rpms to keep it running.

The OP stated that if he put gas in cylinder he could get it to run, which is why i'm saying it could be the fuel pump. Try putting fuel in each cylinder and report back, very simple and easy.
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sorry but the reason your idea is off is because the needle and seat are the check valve!
Just because you put fuel in the cylinders and it starts has nothing to do with the fuel pump if the bowls of the carbs have gas in them, its choke circuit related if the plugs are dry or a reed problem, or like in my previous post a needle and seat/float level issue. The choke pulls the fuel from the bowl, not the fuel pump! The fuel is captive in the fuel bowls.

you dont even need a fuelpump to start the sled, simply unhook the lines from the carbs, and start it up cold, it will start and run till it empties the fuel bowl, it doesnt need fuel pressure to start......go out and try it and youll see.

if the needle and seat are bad in the carb I could see the gas not filling the bowls, if the float level is low, I could see it not filling the bowls, but its not a fuel pump problem. I highly doubt its either of those because he reports the sled runs great and it would empty the bowl out if either of those plausible explanations were true. Especially when he runs the sled with zero issues when its anything other then cold. fuel pumps are simply a diaphram pump, they dont work by being temp sensative, its simply the positive and negative pulse waves from the engine that makes the diaphram move up and down and make the gas move/pump to the carbs.
 
mrviper700 said:
sorry but the reason your idea is off is because the needle and seat are the check valve!
Just because you put fuel in the cylinders and it starts has nothing to do with the fuel pump if the bowls of the carbs have gas in them, its choke circuit related if the plugs are dry or a reed problem, or like in my previous post a needle and seat/float level issue. The choke pulls the fuel from the bowl, not the fuel pump! The fuel is captive in the fuel bowls.

you dont even need a fuelpump to start the sled, simply unhook the lines from the carbs, and start it up cold, it will start and run till it empties the fuel bowl, it doesnt need fuel pressure to start......go out and try it and youll see.

if the needle and seat are bad in the carb I could see the gas not filling the bowls, if the float level is low, I could see it not filling the bowls, but its not a fuel pump problem. I highly doubt its either of those because he reports the sled runs great and it would empty the bowl out if either of those plausible explanations were true. Especially when he runs the sled with zero issues when its anything other then cold. fuel pumps are simply a diaphram pump, they dont work by being temp sensative, its simply the positive and negative pulse waves from the engine that makes the diaphram move up and down and make the gas move/pump to the carbs.
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x2 on it .......no need fuel pump unless the bowl get empty for a unknow reason
 
Well I wasn't going to screw with the sled tonight but curiosity got the best of me.I decided to swap the old load control relay in place of the update kit I installed in the fall.6 pulls it was running.Now I know this is far from conclusive proof but to play devils advocate tomorrow night after the sled is cold from sitting I'm going to put the kit back in and try it again.

If this isn't the issue it's almost got to be the choke plungers so can someone tell me what's in the carb bodies for seals or what not that can be changed or checked?

Like I said in my original post this issue was not present last year so whatever is going on has happened over the summer or since I pulled the sled out of storage and got it running in the fall.
I will be checking the reeds for sealing as well as compression to satisfy my conscience but it will be a day or two before I can get that done.
 
rlbock said:
You state the bowls are full from the last time it was running. How do you know that for sure, if fuel pump is getting weak then why can't the fuel be suck back into tank with the warming of the tank and fuel being in a warm place.

Very simple test, put gas in each cylinder, if it starts and continues to run without issue then that rules everything out except fuel delivery at start up, weak pump won't pump at the rpms that occur during rope start, once running the pump has enough pull at those rpms to keep it running.

The OP stated that if he put gas in cylinder he could get it to run, which is why i'm saying it could be the fuel pump. Try putting fuel in each cylinder and report back, very simple and easy.
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Your point would be valid if we were talking about an old one lunger or a present day weedwacker/chainsaw but his fuel system is pretty much like an early model car with a tank, diaphram pump and carb that uses a reservour to hold fuel to be drawn up when needed.

You wouldn't replace the fuel pump on a 1983 Fairmont for a cold start issue if it ran fine warm. You'd go after the choke.

FB - My memory is a bit foggy, but doesn't the plunger get it's fuel from the bottom passage within the float bowl? An area easily overlooked.

Maybe I'm thinking of round slides, but I could drain my float bowls nearly dry on them with the fuel shut-off closed - engine running and choking the last bit out so I'm sure it sucked from the very bottom. Just a thought.
 
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u can try this ...after it run if u pull full choke does it choke the motor to almost kill it ??? if yes well I think u got a issue with your float bowl getting empty went it sit for a long time ....your gonna need to look where the gaz go ..........with the fuel tank full the carb can't drain back in the tank because of gravity pressure .....hope best luck with it
 
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