roudyroy1
Active member
Hence why I said " likely isn't the cause" and " I would have GUESS" just spit ballin outside the box ideas here guys, since he's already been told to and done the carbs more than a few times( which I believed could be the problem but between this thread and the other the carbs have been apart like what, 5 times now? They gotta be clean) and checked the reeds.
For the recorded though, I did have a recoil that came apart once and took out the pu coil and stator, caused it to snap and pop on low end until the engine speed increased (almost like until the cdi started advancing the spark) I never would have thought that could be it , but after seeing that.... Anything is possible.
For the recorded though, I did have a recoil that came apart once and took out the pu coil and stator, caused it to snap and pop on low end until the engine speed increased (almost like until the cdi started advancing the spark) I never would have thought that could be it , but after seeing that.... Anything is possible.
Last edited:
Just because someone has taken their carbs apart 5 times, does not mean they have cleaned them correctly 5 times. The pilot passages in the body itself could still be plugged, or even partially plugged. The jets that have been replaced, could still be the problem if they're not actual mikuni parts. Hell, even the choke cable adjustment could be too tight, causing the chokes to open just a tickle under motor vibrations. I am just trying to walk him through step, by step instead of throwing all kinds of possibilities out, and having him sniff his own *** like a confused dog.
pinboy122
New member
First off, I appreciate any and all info that people put up. Sometimes you have to weed through a few ideas and see what makes sense for the current situation. I've gotten tons of great input from members on this site, thanks guys!
Now back to the sled. This thing is a redheaded bitch. Roudy is wrong, it's more like 7 or 8 times the carbs have been off. Lol. They are clean,jets are correct,o rings and fuel screw parts are good,choke plunger.... It's all good and blown out with air. It still runs bad. Real bad on the low end and awesome up top. Seems like a carb problem to me too. I did notice 1 thing last night right before I put them back on. No fuel would come out of the disconnected lines when I pulled it over. Is it possible that the fuel pump is weak enough that it won't supply enough fuel at idle but will push enough to run excellent at higher rpms? What's strange is that while fuel wouldn't flow while pulling without the carbs, when I put them on it took about 8 pulls to fill the carbs and start... Before someone asks, the pulse line looks ok. Thanks to all that have stuck with me over this long process
Now back to the sled. This thing is a redheaded bitch. Roudy is wrong, it's more like 7 or 8 times the carbs have been off. Lol. They are clean,jets are correct,o rings and fuel screw parts are good,choke plunger.... It's all good and blown out with air. It still runs bad. Real bad on the low end and awesome up top. Seems like a carb problem to me too. I did notice 1 thing last night right before I put them back on. No fuel would come out of the disconnected lines when I pulled it over. Is it possible that the fuel pump is weak enough that it won't supply enough fuel at idle but will push enough to run excellent at higher rpms? What's strange is that while fuel wouldn't flow while pulling without the carbs, when I put them on it took about 8 pulls to fill the carbs and start... Before someone asks, the pulse line looks ok. Thanks to all that have stuck with me over this long process
roudyroy1
Active member
http://www.totallyamaha.net/forums/threads/98539-Red-head-help
please read this to get yourself up to speed, problem moves between cylinders(whats common between the cylinders? OH YEAH! ignition!), the guy says hes 99% sure the carbs are clean and right and already had a detailed cleaning procedure. if the problem "TRULY" is moving between cylinders and not being misdiagnosed, im saying ignition. IF the problem is truly not moving between cylinders we may assume its a carb or something else.
roudyroy1
Active member
you need to be 100% on that line, take it off, plug one end and blow on the other. old pump is a possibility too. but we are running into a bit of a problem here, on your other thread you said that the choke made it run worse, now you are saying it made it run better? these 2 diagnostics mean 2 different things. please clarify!
and it will be solved soon enough.
I think this thread has got a little side tracked. Lets get it back to the problem. A person who needs some help. I mean absolutely no disrespect to anyone here. Without seeing it or hearing it does make it harder all we can do really is give him ideas. Leave it up to him.
My sled is the same way. No fuel would come out of the disconnected lines when I pulled it over
the pulse hose can be good but the diaphragm in the pump could be bad allowing fuel to be suck into the crankcase. I think the easy way to check that would be take hose off the pump add a piece of clear hose to it. Fire the sled up. see if you have fuel in the clear hose. Here is something I been wondering about but not sure it would cause your problem or where you would need to take voltage readings from. Weak stator/low voltage issue at lower rpms??
Now what do we know. Problem is in the idle to 1/4 throttle range.
new fuel line and filter in the tank
stock main jets/pilot jets fuel screw 1 1/2 turns out.
new plug boots
Carbs cleaned and checked 7-8 times.
Problem seems to jump between different cylinders.
different cdi box did nothing
good compression.
reeds checked
questions
Where is your idle set ?? 1600 + or - 100 is spec. Does the problem still exist if you set idle to say 1900
needle position ?? How are the needle and seats??
Are the plugs getting switched around from cylinder to cylinder?? Are staying in the the original spot??
does flipping the choke on and off help??
have you checked for air leak with. spraying starting fluid on the carbs boots, head gasket cranks seal, ect?
Hose clamp on the fuel lines? or a small zip tie I forgot to do that once had a small fuel leak.
My sled is the same way. No fuel would come out of the disconnected lines when I pulled it over
the pulse hose can be good but the diaphragm in the pump could be bad allowing fuel to be suck into the crankcase. I think the easy way to check that would be take hose off the pump add a piece of clear hose to it. Fire the sled up. see if you have fuel in the clear hose. Here is something I been wondering about but not sure it would cause your problem or where you would need to take voltage readings from. Weak stator/low voltage issue at lower rpms??
Now what do we know. Problem is in the idle to 1/4 throttle range.
new fuel line and filter in the tank
stock main jets/pilot jets fuel screw 1 1/2 turns out.
new plug boots
Carbs cleaned and checked 7-8 times.
Problem seems to jump between different cylinders.
different cdi box did nothing
good compression.
reeds checked
questions
Where is your idle set ?? 1600 + or - 100 is spec. Does the problem still exist if you set idle to say 1900
needle position ?? How are the needle and seats??
Are the plugs getting switched around from cylinder to cylinder?? Are staying in the the original spot??
does flipping the choke on and off help??
have you checked for air leak with. spraying starting fluid on the carbs boots, head gasket cranks seal, ect?
Hose clamp on the fuel lines? or a small zip tie I forgot to do that once had a small fuel leak.
Last edited:
pinboy122
New member
You guys are awesome. I'll try to clarify the choke thing. While riding it in the bog zone I flipped the choke to 1/2 and it ran worse. While screwing with it in the garage on the stand while in the big zone 1/2 choke made it run just a touch better for 2 or 3 seconds. I have a lot going on this weekend but I'm going to try to get my brother to stop by and help me ohm the stator and related parts. Are diaphragm kits available for the pump? Oh yeah, all the jets I replaced are genuine mikuni parts.
Great post ms882
pinboy,
You've given some conflicting info on the symptom and it may be due to definitions.
When you "flip" the choke to half are you leaving it in the 1/2 choke position for the 2-3 seconds it ran better or are you "blipping" it to 1/2 quickly and then it runs better?
Oops, now you say it doesn't help. Was the engine cold the first time?
Are you pulling plug wires when it's running to determine which cylinder is dead? Keep in mind, each coil discharges three times per revolution instead of once every other and there isn't a rotor to burn a hole through or distributor cap to soak up those discharges so you can cause a problem while diagnosing another. Given it runs okay under load suggests you haven't caused a problem but you would be better off looking at the plugs before, then after it's idled crappy. Or if it isn't too hot, touch the exhaust oultet near cyclinder head. Or yank the suspect wire and ground it before you start it.
I'd second ms882's question about are the spark plugs going back into the same holes? I too question that the misfire is moving around.
Loosing a cylinder at idle but getting it back at high rpm is all too often a plugged pilot but can also be caused by a leaking carb boot, crank seal, reeds, leaking/out of adjustment choke plunger, spark plug/cap... provided it's the same cylinder.
If it runs good under load at higher rpms means you have plenty of fuel in the bowls so I would rule out the fuel pump and the tophat filters and needle and seat.
drawf has given you good advice (I got a chuckle about the dog sniffing comment) and I can understand the frustration. Frankly, I've never pulled the carb off anything 7-8 times unless I was tuning so it does raise a question about the thoroughness of your inspections and perhaps missing something when putting it back together each time. I don't mean to be criticle but sometimes a lot is lost in the translation between you and those trying to help and we have to assume, sometimes incorrectly, at some point.
Anyhow - good luck and keep us posted.
pinboy,
You've given some conflicting info on the symptom and it may be due to definitions.
When you "flip" the choke to half are you leaving it in the 1/2 choke position for the 2-3 seconds it ran better or are you "blipping" it to 1/2 quickly and then it runs better?
Oops, now you say it doesn't help. Was the engine cold the first time?
Are you pulling plug wires when it's running to determine which cylinder is dead? Keep in mind, each coil discharges three times per revolution instead of once every other and there isn't a rotor to burn a hole through or distributor cap to soak up those discharges so you can cause a problem while diagnosing another. Given it runs okay under load suggests you haven't caused a problem but you would be better off looking at the plugs before, then after it's idled crappy. Or if it isn't too hot, touch the exhaust oultet near cyclinder head. Or yank the suspect wire and ground it before you start it.
I'd second ms882's question about are the spark plugs going back into the same holes? I too question that the misfire is moving around.
Loosing a cylinder at idle but getting it back at high rpm is all too often a plugged pilot but can also be caused by a leaking carb boot, crank seal, reeds, leaking/out of adjustment choke plunger, spark plug/cap... provided it's the same cylinder.
If it runs good under load at higher rpms means you have plenty of fuel in the bowls so I would rule out the fuel pump and the tophat filters and needle and seat.
drawf has given you good advice (I got a chuckle about the dog sniffing comment) and I can understand the frustration. Frankly, I've never pulled the carb off anything 7-8 times unless I was tuning so it does raise a question about the thoroughness of your inspections and perhaps missing something when putting it back together each time. I don't mean to be criticle but sometimes a lot is lost in the translation between you and those trying to help and we have to assume, sometimes incorrectly, at some point.
Anyhow - good luck and keep us posted.
Last edited:
Fuel mixture screws should be set at two turns out from lightly seated.
What plugs are you running, and are you running the stock airbox along with the baffle?
pinboy122
New member
Snomo, I don't see the need to call me out on "conflicting info" I thougt I clarified it fairly plainly, oops I mean so that an average joe could understand, oops I mean yes a couple of times ran better struggling to idle on the stand when I flipped the choke lever to 1/2 and left it for 2-3 sec before it ran even worse. I realise that nobody here knows me personally but I can assure you that the "thoroughness" of my inspections is well above average. The main reason the carbs have been off so many times is because the problems with this red headed bitch just scream "dirty carbs". There not dirty.im 100% sure that there's not 1 spec of crud in any jet or passage and I'm done taking them off unless there in the way of me getting to something im trying to work on. Sorry, I'm above averagely drunk and quite crabby... To clarify some of your other questions... Yes I pull the wires off 1 at a time while it's running,that's how I know that's not running on all 3 and that the cylinder or cylinders that arnt running have spark. While it sitting on the stand running shitty I have moved the spark plug wires all around trying to pin down and isolate a problem but it doesn't make any difference. I have br9es plugs in it and I have moved them around as well. Because it seems so much like a carb or fuel delivery problem I think my next step is to absolutely rule out the pulse line and fuel pump. It makes sense to me that a weak pump may not deliver proper fuel at idle but does under the full vaccume of wide open throttle. I think at this point my main goal isn't to get this sled running right but to make sure that my Canadian buds roudy and dwarf become best friends. Ok, time for my drunk *** to go to bed.
pinboy122
New member
Oh yeah, dwarf every thing on this sled is bone stick except for the reed stopper mod and the dent in he trailing arm. Don't ask
super1c
Super Moderator
Just got into this thread tonight. X2 on fuel screws. Caught my attention right away when I saw they were set at 1.5 turns. I know 1.5 is oem spec but these are old machines and spec is long out the window at times. Fuel screws are idle screws to me. Might explain low idle running problems? Oh yea let's all play nice to guys! (Just a friendly reminder from your neighborhood mod
)
Last edited:
roudyroy1
Active member
Is this happening immediately when the sled idles down or does it take a little bit of time before it gets boggy?
Pull the airbox off, and fire it up. When it starts running poorly, with a spray bottle, spray some fuel into the carb mouth. If the cyl. comes back to life, well then you have a fuel problem. If that cylinder doest wake up, you likely have ignition troubles. Now, when spraying fuel, and the cyl fires, then dies again without spraying, place your hand over the carb mouth. This is the same as applying a choke to that cylinder only. If the cyl. fires briefly, well then you have a carb problem, and it's most likely dirty somewhere. If the cyl does not fire, then you have no fuel in the bowl.
I am going to ask not sure if I want to someone might bite my head off. Have you tried NEW spark plugs. If you are moving your plugs around and the problem is fallowing the plug. New plugs can be junk. Just gonna throw that out there.
I personally do not like to pull the plug wire off to see if it contributing. Must go back to my mechanic days and knowing the voltage that comes out. Zapped one to many times from bad plug wires. I usually stick my hand on the exhaust manifold by the head (exhaust port) on a cold start up. If one of them stays cold compared to the other 2 that cylinder is dead. All 3 should heat up fairly quick.
A couple things first , I have never had good luck with br9es plugs in that sled , I always would foul out at idle, Don't know why and don't care .I changed to br9eya's and NEVER fouled a plug since ( 20000 miles later). second, It sounds more and more like it may be in your reeds, Bad reeds are funny ,they may not look bad but sometimes they don't seat properly, especially if they have been tampered with.Also and maybe this has been addressed , but ,how is the compression? I've seen sleds with low comp. run good at wide open and poor at idle.
Last edited:
Well, is it fixed?
pinboy122
New member
Hey guys i was busy at work and need a break from the "red headed bitch". I got back into it a little tonight. Here goes the abridged version. Pulled air box. Disconnected fuel lines at carbs and pulled over. After 3-5 pulls some fuel dribbled out,a little less on the mag side carb than the others. Pulled the fuel pump off and took it apart. There was a fair amount of small black debris throughout the pump. Cleaned it all out and diddnt see any pin holes ect in rest of pump. Put it back on and fuel still just kinda dribbles out the lines,no real change there. Hooked everything back up except the air box and started it up. Still only running on 2 at idle(always the mag side not running now). As suggested sprayed fuel into mag side carb and it perked right up.... Pretty sure this is telling me that the pump is weak and the mag-carb being the furthest from the pump isn't getting enough gas. Bad fuel pump right?