Is it time to jump ship???

calm down guys.

there's arguments to go both ways, and the "but they're heavy" "but they're unreliable" debate has been done here MANY times, I'm not interested in seeing it repeated.

this IS the 2-stroke side, expect a bias. I find it funny tho that opsled talks of how different sleds are for different applications, and in the same post, talks of how the 4-strokes can't be beat.

anyways, I think opsled is right that it's different sleds for different applications, and I'd appreciate it if you guys would tone it down a bit, I don't want to have to get involved as a moderator, there's a lot of good advice that can come from this thread and it'd be a shame if I had to lock it, but it's really up to you guys.
 

Junior said:
calm down guys.

there's arguments to go both ways, and the "but they're heavy" "but they're unreliable" debate has been done here MANY times, I'm not interested in seeing it repeated.

this IS the 2-stroke side, expect a bias. I find it funny tho that opsled talks of how different sleds are for different applications, and in the same post, talks of how the 4-strokes can't be beat.

anyways, I think opsled is right that it's different sleds for different applications, and I'd appreciate it if you guys would tone it down a bit, I don't want to have to get involved as a moderator, there's a lot of good advice that can come from this thread and it'd be a shame if I had to lock it, but it's really up to you guys.
Click to expand...

I am calm, and I have no problem with personal preference or bias. I have them too. But when someone makes a statment about how something is good or bad when answering a question by someone seeking imformation that statment needs to be backed up with facts or your reasoning based on your personal preferance or bias. If not it's just a bash fest and doesn't do anything to help answer a question. I enjoy getting into a friendly bash fest and talking some smack over a beer with anyone but if you ask a ligitimate question and want a ligitimate answer I will give you that to if I can.

I spend very little time in the 4 stroke side as there is very little there that interests me. I love my two strokes but I will also always have a 4 stroke. I've explained the type of riding I like and why I think they can't be beat under those conditions. I may not have been clear enough on the "can't be beat" statment and if so here is what I mean. When talking overall performance, reliability, fuel economy and lack of maintenence needs in the type of riding I like best (high speed, big trail, lake and river running) I would rank them # 1 when we are talking long term riding of this type. There are many sleds that will beat them in 1 or more of these catagories and many that will beat them under other conditions but for alot people a 4 stroke Yami is a perfect sled for them. There are alot of untruths, and misconceptions out there about them and if people were more honest about them others could make a better decision on whether or not to buy one. They are a great sled but there is no doubt that they are not for everyone. I would never tell anyone that a 4 stroke is the only sled to buy and the same thing goes with a 2 stroke but I will tell anyone who has not ridden a 4 stroke Yami to do so if you get the chance. They are different and you may not like it but they are not freight trains and most of the negetives you hear about them are only partially true at best.

I have always been baffled by comparisons made between sleds in the snowmobiling world. You would think by listening to people talk that all sleds are built to do the same thing. The same guy that will try to compare an Apex to a 600 Rev would never try to compare a Geo to a Vette or a Goldwing to a crotch rocket but they do with sleds. I don't get it. The maufacturers don't do it, the magazines doing comparisons and writing reports on them don't do it yet I see it all the time on forums like this and when just talking sleds with others. It makes no sense to me.

So if you want to call a 4 stroke a freight train go ahead but remember a freight train will haul more mail farther, faster, longer and more efficiently than any other form of transportation.


Hmmmmm????? Maby I do ride a freight train. ;)! ;)! ;)! ;)!

opsled
 
ALL I GOTTA SAY IS you know what color my tow rope is ?---- YELLOW
MYvery good freind rides dooand this is first hand info . for absolutley no reason at all under any conditions and evan just cruising that f^%$#@in thing will burn down. hey 15 sleds will pull up to the same gas pump oh oh here comes a doo. thats the only one that will burn up or down however you want to look at it. AND on a brand new rev BOMBardier WILL NOT warranty it because they claim either bad gas or injested snow. its your choice. i'm just glad i put a hitch on my yammy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :letitsnow
 
there's alot of misconceptions yes, but they go both ways. In my experience the 4-strokes aren't nearly as cheap as far as maintenance goes as people are saying, nor are the Bombi's near as bad for burning down as people say. There will always be brand bashing sure, but I don't like to see "my cousins uncles best friend had a rev and it went thru 10 motors in the first year."

Op, for what it's worth, I whole heartedly agree with you, that there needs to be a change in perception, there are MANY kinds of sled out there. Motorcycles split a long time ago to have cruisers, dirtbikes, enduros, sport, now motards are on the scene too. And it was a good thing. The sled industry DOES need to split like that, but I don't see it happening 'cause then every manufacturer will feel obliged to compete in every field, and that's just not possible.

Could Yamaha make something that competes with a rev 600 or an F7? yes. Will they? No. it would mean going back on the "4-strokes are better faster cheaper" statement, and I have NEVER seen any Japanese company go back on a statement that was given with such confidence and clarity. So they're automatically excluded from that market. Could Bombardier build a sled to compete with the new 4-stroke ventures? without a doubt yes.... but again, they won't. For reasons equal and opposite to the ones I just spoke of for the Yamaha.

I also really wish there was an overall satisfaction survey that was run on 2-3 year old sleds. Go over the owners and survey them as to how much shop time, total repair costs, how the dealer treated you, whether the sled delivered what it was supposed to. Not just "it's crazy fast!" or "it's really reliable" but "did it do what you expected it to?"

The problem is, no magazine will run this, 'cause if it makes a manufacturer look bad, said manufacturer threatens to pull advertising, and the survey doesn't get published.
 
Very well said Junior. I agree completely. People just need to do more homework when making decisions on what will best suit their needs and others need to be more honest when giving advice. With almost anything you buy today there is really no such thing as a "one size fits all" and finding something that fit can be hard sometimes.

Thanks for your input, Phil (opsled)
 
Post of the day for Junior. Don't let brand loyalty get in the way of an honest opinion about a sled.

I will tell you right now my Pro-X 800 was SLOW when I first bought it. It's a totally different sled after changing the jetting, clutching and gearing in it.
 
Here is how I see it - it should be no different than anything else you own - car, lawnmower, stereo, house, girlfriend, (whops, I guess you don't own that) you know what I mean - you have what you can afford and what you enjoy - it is after all called snowmobiling isn't it? - not Yamaha riding, Ski Doo riding, etc. - that being said, buy whatever you can afford and think you will enjoy and go out and ride!!! - just do us all a favor and don't think you are "all of that" just because you ride brand X, Y, or Z!! - that just pi**es us all off and I've seen way too much of it!!!! - my 2 cents!! ;)!
 
2 cents worth!!!!!

Well the way I see it is:There are different products in this world,some good and some not so good.We all learn from experience and we read and find out things about other products we may purchase.Some products seem to have a good track record and others don't.I am not putting any brand down,but in my sledding years I know what brands I had problems with and I know what brand seems to be a none issue.That is why I am where I am today riding true blue.If Yamaha all of a sudden produced sleds and engines were blowing over and over again,I would not come back to them.
Every individual will have his own experiences and stories,and that's what commits them to the brand they ride.Be it cars,trucks,boats,ATV's,Sleds,
he or she will make their decision as to what is good for them.Price is another factor when purchasing a product.Me ,myself and I are hoping that our decisions are good,that what we purchase is reliable.But sometimes things go wrong and you wander if the decision you made was right.Every manufacturer is fighting for you sale,they will really play up their products to the fullest to get that sale.Again,you must decide again,based on many factors:brand,what way you will use them,price,warranty,reputation,
service,re-calls,etc.YOU make the choice,no one else should do it for you.
I guess that is my 2 cents worth.
 
Just found a brand new(0 miles) Viper ER in Red today and will be buying it this week. Also found a Viper sport(0 miles) and a Venom with 1,153 miles. I LOVE YAMAHA TRIPLES. The dealer I was at today sells both ski-doo's and Yami and says that Yami's are built proof. Ski-doo's are lighter and faster but you'll spend more time in the shop. Quote's from my guy at the dealer
 
Yeah,lighter is not always better.Think what a sled goes through in a average day of riding.You want parts to last,not to break more often.I am a crazyman when I ride my 2001 600SXR.I do everything with it,and it still won't quite on me.I do some nasty jumping with it,and it never breaks apart,Got almost 10,000 km's on this sled.I usually always have it pinned,and that triple is awesome man.Bullet proof..I believe it now.With my SRX,I will pin it a lot to,but will not do the crazy jumps with it.Both my sleds I have gone through with a fine tooth comb.They are both like brand new sleds now,and will add on many more miles to them yet.Can I say RELIABLE.
:bling: :bling: :bling:
 
CNOTE said:
I ride groomed trails in lower and upper Michigan and an occasional run through fresh powder.
Click to expand...

I'll start by saying I've been riding Yamaha's for 28 years, 1,000- 3,000 miles every year. I'm now on my 11th sled.

I ride the same conditions as CNOTE in Michigan's U.P. As a prior owner of a 2002 Viper with over 10,000 miles I too loved the triple and had a tough time between doing a rebuild, buy another (new/newer) Viper or, going 4-stroke. Well I took the "plunge" last fall and bought a left over 06 Attak.

Two of the friends I ride with still have their 2004 Vipers. We ride the trails aggressively. After riding the Attak and then climbing back on a Viper for a few miles, I'm trying to figure out "how in heck did I ride one of these for over 10K miles?" For me, there is no comparison when it comes to trail riding. The 136" track is a great ride, no more smelly suit and the power -- I thought the Viper was fast... it doesn't hold a candle to an Attak on the straight stuff.

The only reason my Viper friends are still riding Vipers is because they don't have the $'s to spend right now... :letitsnow
 
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