78 Ssr H.p.?


What I mean is why is the left one has a main jet of 440 and the right one 240 ??Also the power jet on the lef is # 130 and the right is # 165 ??
Always on the VM 44 (8H8)
 
I think it's because of it being an oval sled. sounds crazy, but that's what I was told. I had the jet sizes written down. If you need them I could look them up. Dean-o
 
The jet sizes Rick wrote are correct. It was because of running on the main thru the corners when you get heat wash accross the mag carb. The big powerjet brings top end jetting back up when needed going down the straight. I would have thought it would have been the same problem for an SRX.
 
dynofun said:
Really? Where did you get it? Mine was Randy Johnson's and he did oval it. Got a 3rd or 4th at the World Series or something. Dynotech probably would have only got about 90 out of a '77 on his dyno. SSR's are a lot stronger than a 77. Stock pipes did suck tho.
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It was Randys SSR that he had hanging in his shop for years.
 
RICKYAMAHA said:
What I mean is why is the left one has a main jet of 440 and the right one 240 ??Also the power jet on the lef is # 130 and the right is # 165 ??
Always on the VM 44 (8H8)
Click to expand...
Sorry for the thread ressurection but I'm dealing with recreating the factory setup on a set of VM44 power jet carbs for an SSR right now. (actually still looking for a set of inlet bells if anyone knows of a pair)

But this jetting data is 100% correct and was the racer recommended setup for the 78 SSR. I owned an SSR and still have all the factory "setup" sheets directly from Yamaha Canada's Racing office in British Columbia.(and apparently was based off dyno and early testing in Alaska that year) The PTO side runs hotter and is jettted WAY richer in the main (and smaller power jet)as compared to MAG side. (I know OPPOSITE to a Rotax)

There's also a table for adjustments to 3300 feet. The interesting thing is those changes fpr altitude are made to the power valve only and the mains stayed at <PTO>(440)(240)<MAG>
I always thought it was a bit weird but it WORKED!
(See results of this exact jetting in Gorkon's post here)

toydoc said:
Last number I know of was 98hp at Dynotech
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Really? If DTR ever did test publish the SSR numbers in any of their newsletters, I've never seen it!

WopOnTour
 
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The real factory SSR that I came back to race one weekend when Roy W. left…had:

A 55 mm prototype Mikuni with a butterfly and an emulsion tube.
(Never made production)
The steering arm was located under the belly pan..
Every piece had been made from thinner..higher quality aluminum..
Offset gas tnak like our older sleds
Clutches were OEM
The thing made more HP than I have ever experienced..
It just tried to rip your hands off the bars..​
It needed some handling stuff fixed and the clutches worked but could have been made much better.
They had a 340 in the SSR chassis as well so Roy could race more classes..

We had the stocker as well..no where even close to the mod..no where close
 
RJH said:
The real factory SSR that I came back to race one weekend when Roy W. left…had:





A 55 mm prototype Mikuni with a butterfly and an emulsion tube.




(Never made production)
The steering arm was located under the belly pan..
Every piece had been made from thinner..higher quality aluminum..
Offset gas tnak like our older sleds
Clutches were OEM
The thing made more HP than I have ever experienced..
It just tried to rip your hands off the bars..



​
It needed some handling stuff fixed and the clutches worked but could have seen made much better.



They had a 340 in the SSR chassis as well so Roy could race more classes..

We had the stocker as well..no where even close to the mod..no where close
Click to expand...
Thanks RJH
Great stuff!
I'm wondering if you ever seen the factory SSR innards to the extent you could identify if it had these interesting transfer ports and dual-ported piston as shown in this thread:
http://www.totallyamaha.net/forums/showthread.php?t=84077 (something I've suspected for quite some time)
WOT

PS> we had a couple 340 SSRs (transplanted out of a 76 obviously) competing out West as well. Dennis Clarke had one as did Larry Omans I believe
 
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all I remember is when my cousin had the 78 SSR and I had the 78 Exciter..I had 2 HP more then his and he could never ever beat me or take me off the line.He was so pissed because of the 2 HP difference.
 
bluemonster1 said:
all I remember is when my cousin had the 78 SSR and I had the 78 Exciter..I had 2 HP more then his and he could never ever beat me or take me off the line.He was so pissed because of the 2 HP difference.
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Ummm I'm thinking you might have meant something else.
A '78 Exciter 440 was fan-cooled, had about 48HP, and ran in Stock "E" back in the day.

The '78 SSR which was Yamaha's first production (albeit limited) IFS oval racer (and wasnt even permitted in "stocker" classes) was around ~105HP @ 9900 RPM.
WOT

PS> Below photo of #35 Franz Rosenquist doing his thing on a 78 SSR
 

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yeah doesn't make sense to me..but I am sure he had an SSR but wasn't a race sled and it was Red to.Who knows???that was 33 years ago..can't remember exactly..but spoke to another cousin the other day and he mentioned that my other cousin had a SSR..hmmm! don't know then.
 
Usually when I write this stuff..folks just turn off..as it does not match ..what everyone thinks.

No..It was 1 weekend and I was told to keep my mouth shut around the engineers…I guess the race boss was protecting his job. :ban:

I did race the factory sleds early on and we had that flathead water cooled the original fast engine. That porting was the exact same as the GYT kit.

The pistons were light weight as were the small rod end pins.

The SSR sled was very poor …..all that factory HP was wasted.
There is no magic in factory sleds at that time or anymore..just time to get it all right!

Engine was in the wrong place..belts wrong..tons of stuff..oh well..no balance…

The stocker was very fast as well…and even handled better than the lowered factory mod.

Like WTF ..did the guy that drove them before me not feel that??????

I have also seen factory MX bikes..there is no secrete…just put together right..and light weight.

The pipes were very special..and showed a huge improvement in performance over GYT.

The ports were as cast not polished..

I think the key is….all the guys that got factory sleds were fast anyways..so to extract the max from any sled was the norm. The guy that bought my factory sleds that I drove..I don’t think ever made a final..
 
haha Thanks Bob, I know what you mean.
I raced an SSR that I purchased in 1979 after the guy that had it before me couldnt make it corner.
On a longer track like Waldhiem or BJ it FLEW though! But then you ended up scrubbing off almost all the gains coming into the corner. Frustrating!

I redid the front end completely, as the thing cornered like a leafer and had way too much bump steer. I yanked then chopped the trailing arms and altered the caster, cut and repositioned the upper shock mount (higher so it lowered the the front of the sled ~1.5") better gas shocks with softer springs and more adjustment, added spacer type rod-ends to better level the rods, replaced the sway bar with a stiffer one with longer link arms AND THEN went to town on the rear skid! LOL
I eventually got it to "get around" as good as the competition and did pretty well with it for a couple years.

But I always wondered what the factory SSR sleds (like Frans Rosequist or Ed Schubitke) had for pistons and porting as they would top end with the Rotax powered Ski-Doo SMs no problem. Maybe not quite as much grunt coming out of the corner but by 1/2 the straight they could reel them in again. (then flog through the corner only to do it all again, obviously hoping for a bad mistake or even a wreck in front of him)

But now I don't recall ever seeing these huge extra ported cylinder configurations in anything around here, so just wondering if that was possibly the secret sauce I had missed out on all those years ago.
So I was just wondering if you might have stuck your head in there and seen something? I've seen some magnesium SSR cyls with fist sized ports, 3-bolt intakes with butterfly carbs??

Anyone else know of the origins? Did I miss the boat??

Thanks again Bob for sharing your great memories of those days. (as "cryptic" as they can be LOL) You're the best.
Regards
WopOnTour
 

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WopOnTour said:
haha Thanks Bob, I know what you mean.
I raced an SSR that I purchased in 1979 after the guy that had it before me couldnt make it corner.
On a longer track like Waldhiem or BJ it FLEW though! But then you ended up scrubbing off almost all the gains coming into the corner. Frustrating!

I redid the front end completely, as the thing cornered like a leafer and had way too much bump steer. I yanked then chopped the trailing arms and altered the caster, cut and repositioned the upper shock mount (higher so it lowered the the front of the sled ~1.5") better gas shocks with softer springs and more adjustment, added spacer type rod-ends to better level the rods, replaced the sway bar with a stiffer one with longer link arms AND THEN went to town on the rear skid! LOL
I eventually got it to "get around" as good as the competition and did pretty well with it for a couple years.

But I always wondered what the factory SSR sleds (like Larry O's which I had seen a lot of because I'm out West) had for pistons and porting as he would top end with the Rotax no problem. Maybe not quite as much grunt coming out of the corner but by 1/2 the straight he could reel them in again. (then flog through the corner only to do it all again, obviously hoping for a bad mistake or even a wreck in front of him)

But now I don't recall ever seeing this twin ported piston configuration in anything, so just wondering if that was possibly the secret sauce I had missed out on all those years ago. I've just recently purchased another 78 SRX "basket case" that I want to restore to a trackable state. So I'm willing to get some pistons milled to match up to those small transfer ports as shown below. I just dont know if it would be a waste of time and $$.
So I was just wondering if you might have stuck your head in there and seen something.

Anyone else know of it's origins? Did I miss the boat??

Thanks again Bob for sharing your great memories of those days. (as "cryptic" as they can be LOL) You're the best.
Regards
WopOnTour
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I don't think Yam ever used those ports in any race sled. I remember asking Gordy back in the day and he said no. I always thought if they didn't think it was worth while why would anyone else...
 
Ya I think it was Roy who left last..maybe it was Larry..

Wow..I like all that work..you did

Same with the 77..they let me drive one of those a few times..I moved the caster about 4 deg straighter and added huge down force (long springs mounted in the middle) on the front of the skid…it was on a rail..

This reason the SSR was so slow off the corner…it was a point the squirt sled. You had to wait till you were aimed…

I told Bob..I had to let off way to early going in..as nothing was on the front. I don’t drag the skis on the straight either..as that takes speed away.

The clutch was near red hot

No..nothing trick in the engine…Yamaha race engines are always fast..it just takes time to find it…

They had factory pipes..(factory pipes are amazing) and no weight to speak of. Everything that rotated was made light.

The carb was a prototype –huge and it was jetted right on..

My oval sled from mid 70’s would have smoked that SSR on any ½ mile..
The trick with the SRX or GPX skid rather..was to put the rear slid portion together upside down..and use mass springs..the sled just floated..

See hows Frans is sideways in the pic above..,.that ain't the fast way around..

I wish..they would have given me that SSR..man it had soooo much potential..

I'm sure you have seen these before...our sleds were on rails..we could go sooo deep. I have found that all things have to be right to steer..power..clutching the works..

Peterborough340winning.jpg



Leading340PeterboroughFinal.jpg
 
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dynofun said:
I don't think Yam ever used those ports in any race sled. I remember asking Gordy back in the day and he said no. I always thought if they didn't think it was worth while why would anyone else...
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Well I've never seen additional ports added to 8F2 or 8H0 cylinders such as these. I presume they have some sort if matching piston ports as well?. Any idea of the results?? (of course only the dyno would tell)
Thanks
RJH said:
Wow..I like all that work..you did

Same with the 77..they let me drive one of those a few times..
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Bob, from one old man to another- do yourself a favor and get get back into sled racing. It's obvious the passion and the knowledge is still there. As a team owner or even as a crew chief or pit-man you'll have a blast and can pass some of that knowledge down. While the sleds have changed going around in a circle hasnt. Our team is based out in Western Canada but we've teamed up with a couple of 20-something drivers out in Minnesota for the next few seasons plan to campaign a couple of F500 sleds and work our way up to Pro Champ. Sp FAr We're Lovin it!

At the very least maybe come out to Beausejour in March for the 50th CPTC. If you do please swing by the trailer - big 45 footer with NB RACING on the back and sides

WopOnTour (Alan)
NB Racing

PS> Love the old vintage pics. haha nothing like the feeling of being way out in front like that! If you have any more please post them! (is that you on the twin tracker? how was that?)
 
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