I want to write a Dissertation all about ETHANOL and METHANOL,,,,,but.. lets just say that ILLINOIS and WISCONSIN CORN FARMERS are making a KILLING with growing CORN!!! As far as the CARBON FOOTPRINT that producing ETHANOL makes,,,well,,, the GOVERNMENT knows ALL ABOUT the PROBLEMS involved.. They didn't take into account the FLATULENCE from all the COWS eating the corn because there is SO DAMN MUCH of it,,,, not to mention that EVERY FARM ANIMAL is FORCE FED CORN because EVERYONE IS growing it...... The ILLINOIS REPUBLICAN Farmers are LAUGHING all the way to the BANK!!!! Do you want me to go any further???
WIsconsin Farmers too!!!! 
Don't even get a certain someone going nosboy --- it's like talking to a brick wall........
......Or maybe like my sister's 8 year old; always has to have the last word no matter how silly what they are saying really is.
But snomofo, racerrob, #1Chevy, Phatboy (please realize my above comments were not directed at any of you) -- you guys are right, ethanol is certainly here to stay and we all do need to adapt as even MN will some day probably not offer nonoxygenated gasoline formulations like they allow now. We'll just risk using crappy fuel out there and have to take precautions (Less WOT time, Fatter jetting, draining gas tank, LOTS of fuel stabilizers -- even just for a week or two!). Sno, that was some really good advice about how to protect your sled from degrading/separating fuel still existing in your tank. #1Chevy, good job pointing out realities of phased fuel in short time frames.
So no offense to anybody but I've said all I plan to say in this thread. I feel I've changed no minds, nor was persuaded in the slightest except the good advice from Snomofo and #1Chevy.
There's always a lot of other good topics/threads happening so hopefully we'll see ya all later in those threads.
Mike
......Or maybe like my sister's 8 year old; always has to have the last word no matter how silly what they are saying really is.
But snomofo, racerrob, #1Chevy, Phatboy (please realize my above comments were not directed at any of you) -- you guys are right, ethanol is certainly here to stay and we all do need to adapt as even MN will some day probably not offer nonoxygenated gasoline formulations like they allow now. We'll just risk using crappy fuel out there and have to take precautions (Less WOT time, Fatter jetting, draining gas tank, LOTS of fuel stabilizers -- even just for a week or two!). Sno, that was some really good advice about how to protect your sled from degrading/separating fuel still existing in your tank. #1Chevy, good job pointing out realities of phased fuel in short time frames.
So no offense to anybody but I've said all I plan to say in this thread. I feel I've changed no minds, nor was persuaded in the slightest except the good advice from Snomofo and #1Chevy.
There's always a lot of other good topics/threads happening so hopefully we'll see ya all later in those threads.
Mike
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sleddineinar
VIP Member
Man! I will say one thing... I have been a part of this group for almost 3 years now, and I've noticed something, If someone asks a question about ethanol or fuel additives, it's going to be an interesting thread to follow. I always enjoy reading the debates!!! Good thing we're all friends here, because I'd hate to see what it would be like if you guys hated each other! LOL!!
no1chevyboy
New member
lol its a good debate
no1chevyboy said:
No offense taken, just pointing out where the name calling started.
PhatboyC
New member
Just to keep this hot thread going...
Allot of you guys uses gas stabilizers thinking it will prolong the gas from phase separation. Unfortunately non of these companies produced proof that their product worked. This would be a very simple test. Jar A with stabilizer Jar B without. Yet none of them did. Think about it, products that worked have always been tested and proven by the manufacturer.
Instead they rely on marketing and word of mouth. The use of stabilizers and claiming that's why you never had any problems doesn't mean anything. You would of been fine regardless. I never added one drop to any of my engines and no problems here.
Allot of you guys uses gas stabilizers thinking it will prolong the gas from phase separation. Unfortunately non of these companies produced proof that their product worked. This would be a very simple test. Jar A with stabilizer Jar B without. Yet none of them did. Think about it, products that worked have always been tested and proven by the manufacturer.
Instead they rely on marketing and word of mouth. The use of stabilizers and claiming that's why you never had any problems doesn't mean anything. You would of been fine regardless. I never added one drop to any of my engines and no problems here.
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OK, I've let his thread run for a while. Please keep your comments on an adult level and stop the personal attacks. This bashing has gone on long enough!! Respect each others opinions and move on. And yes, this is our job as Moderator's. Not always popular, but it allows MrSled to keep this site a fun AND informative place to be.
Dave
Dave
no1chevyboy
New member
hay phat, i agree with you on the lottery juices such as stabilizers, from what ive found all it does is turn the clear jelly brown, at the places i work they have tryed many, i personaly have not seen anything that works! i think it was last week a salesman came in and said there coming out with some thing to reverse phaze seperation but i have to see it to believe it lol
chance3131
New member
No1chevy and mtviper,
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/fuels/rfg/waterphs.pdf
Follow this link and read the whole article. I know this is a goverment website, but if you read the entire thing, let me know what you think about how ethanol oxygenated gas enters phase separtion.
You will love the conclusion part, they even mention the use of a fuel stabilizer.
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/fuels/rfg/waterphs.pdf
Follow this link and read the whole article. I know this is a goverment website, but if you read the entire thing, let me know what you think about how ethanol oxygenated gas enters phase separtion.
You will love the conclusion part, they even mention the use of a fuel stabilizer.
I really don't want to fight like a bunch of school girls over this anymore -- we've all been out of hand here, me admittedly so too -- way too far and I'm sorry. We are all friends and Yammi comrades here, right!
The stuff "is what it is" so to speak and is here to stay -- for many reasons -- political and other......
I'm not sure the exact purpose of the article or who wrote it/for what purpose. It does say this:
"In the case of two-stroke engines, this water-ethanol phase will compete with the blended oil for bonding to the metal engine parts. Therefore, the engine will not have enough lubrication, and engine damage may result."
Oh well, we are each going to have to find ways to deal/use ethanol blended fuels. I like Seafoam additive a lot -- it claims to "rid" the fuel tank of water, but I don't know how it would do that chemically.
Take care all,
Mike
The stuff "is what it is" so to speak and is here to stay -- for many reasons -- political and other......
I'm not sure the exact purpose of the article or who wrote it/for what purpose. It does say this:
"In the case of two-stroke engines, this water-ethanol phase will compete with the blended oil for bonding to the metal engine parts. Therefore, the engine will not have enough lubrication, and engine damage may result."
Oh well, we are each going to have to find ways to deal/use ethanol blended fuels. I like Seafoam additive a lot -- it claims to "rid" the fuel tank of water, but I don't know how it would do that chemically.
Take care all,
Mike
mntvipermn said:
no1chevyboy
New member
well chance, i read the article, i dont like how they call everything phaze, its harder to understand, me personally with all my training, i have never heard the term phaze seperation until a few years ago, so with that yes water used to form in the bottom of the tanks on regular fuel and the other formulas, that water could be seperated from the fuel in many ways, that was ok because if it didnt get removed the engine would get a drink of just water thus it would not run, ok, now crapinal absorbs the water an atracks the water, this when seperated/phazed the motor will still run as stated in article and motor damage will result, i personaly believe because of the quantity of water it will hold before phaze that it could still damage a motor, based on the water fighting the oil and the article backs that, the bigest thing that i found decieving in the article is the shelf life, now in school they state it degrades in 15 days, as i stated in a past post i personaly had a sample of fuel in a glass bottle on a bench go from clear to foggy and seperate in under 8 hours, now i did not do this as a test or anything every motor i work on before i start i take a fuel sample, so i didnt add the water to it and it wouldnt make any sense for any one else to, so what can i say but my eyes dont lie now heres another thing, if the dates are correct this misinformation, it is 14yrs old, i cant remember how long it took the scientists to figure out the world wasnt flat but... oh thats write they didnt, someone said i dont believe you and just set sail and suprise its not flat at all wowe!!! what a discovery not in a lab but real life they are missleading you, they probably use this information over and over and not study real life applications of the product, i tell the people here somethings that i see in the real world to inform them, i dont lie i take pride in telling the truth, there are alot of people that have no clue, just turn a thingy theres a noise and if i push the flipper i move forward and thats ok they do something else for a living but might come hear to learn, this is just my opinon base off my customer expereance
PenguinLuke33
New member
Thank you for all the information and I think I'll do some tests to! It seems like a good idea to me and maybe I'll learn a lil more to.
super1c
Super Moderator
I think we all learned a little or more. I know i did.