Gas with ethanol

PenguinLuke33 said:
I look up the thing about how they have been using 10% ethonal gas in the U.S. since the mid-1980's and I found it was not in the U.S. it was in Brazil so I'm wondering why people are saying they have been using 10% since the mid-1980's. Also I am with no1chevyboy because the ethonal starts to seperate after 10 days so who knows how long it will be in the tanks at the gas station and if you burn pure ethonal through your sled, bye bye engine.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/07/business/energy-environment/07ethanol.html
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos...l-testers.com/ethanol_engine_precautions.html
We have been using ethanol blends for a long time. It is not everywhere yet but its comming and its somthing we will have to deal with. I see it here depending where you buy gas. Read the lable at the pump.
 

More on Ethanol

As no1chevyboy noted so well from his many years of experience, the ethanol is just not good for 2 strokes..plain & simple. I have posted a couple links to articles that clearly state the issues with ethanol near the beggining of this post. Here are some more to read & review.

http://www.boatoregon.com/OSMB/news/E10.shtml

http://www.fuel-testers.com/ethanol_engine_precautions.html

http://www.fuel-testers.com/list_e10_engine_damage.html

I think these 2 links from the fuel tester sites really lay it out there.

And, for the link to good old Wikipedia's info regarding ethanol, I would dispute their claims of the use of ethanol in the avaiation fuel group. There are warnings here in OR for all pilots & FBO's to NOT USE ethanol in your planes. We all know how "solid" Wikipedia's info is..LOL If you want some boring reading, check out this link from Phillips 66 Av Gas site. The MSD sheets for Av gas, there is no listing of ethanol in there. I would hate to be at 8,000-10,000' in the ole Cessna 172 with a tank fuel of ethanol based fuel!!
Although the glide ratio is not bad, I just hate it when the prop stops turning at that altittude!! LOL :o|

http://www.phillips66aviation.com/pdfs/AvGas1406_MS_MSDS.pdf

So, while there is no argument, this crappy fuel is here to stay, that does not make it good gas & what everyone needs to know is what is in their fuel tank so that you can take the proper precautions and settings accordingly.

No matter what anyone says, there are way too many facts that support the truth that this fuel is lousy. We just need to be educated and use the best fuel ya can get your hands on!!
 
thanks for the reading material it is all true in the real world , with a few exceptions, the shelf life is way shorter than stated, and a water seperator will do nothing, its not magic it does not let only fuel and crapinal thru and hold back the water, saturated fuel will flow thru it and phaze seperated will too, it will stop debris from tank but thats it as for keeping your tank close to full during storage, thats just more fuel that i have to dump out after storage, store entirely empty is the safest bet, in one month we ended up dumping 165 gallons of contaminated fuel, thats a waste really, if there is any way to fight this fuel being forced upon us we must do it. just because somebody hammers the square peg through the round hole, doesnt mean we all should, they just dont know any better and need a swift kick in the --- lol
 
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To each their own (and each to his own peril), but I will not run any ethanol gas in my small engines.........

Too much evidence of gunked up carbs from ethanol, phase seperation of ethanol and gasoline, ethanol absorbing water (detrimental to 2 strokes!!!), and ethanol linked to burned down and/or detonated motors in sleds for my liking.

My buddy just early last winter detonated his Mnt. Viper (Where I got my Billet Tuning Fork Wheels and Billet Peak Head from!) using crappy ethanol gas. I use only high grade 91 octane nonoxygenated gas in my Mnt. Viper and no detonation issues for me.

But I always worry about what gas I'm buying whenever I fill up trail side, even though they usually have high traffic (so decent gas supply turn over) and they claim it's nonoxygenated. You could unknowingly buy the "crapinol" and there is no defense for that!



Mike
 
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just had another customer get bad fuel from pump (12 gals it looks) unless there mistaken on when they got it, this stuff is pure crap, the other thing is a few years ago the high octain was high because of alcohol (93) now its not makes you think hmmmmmmmmmmmmm its a fricken lottery maybe its good, i dont know the only way to know is to test, best wishes hope it works out for every one!!!!!!!
 
i wish that was the case, but its not, ive been working on motors state wide for along time and it even happens to the guy that travels out of his way and only puts good gas in his stuff, sorry i believe from what ive seen the only way to now is to test at pump and i dont know how you can do that reasonably. if the fuel came from the station he said, its a well used station, so the only answer i can come up with is only filling up at air ports were they dont force you to put fuel in your tank that will kill you yet!!!!!!!!!!!!! only your motor that doesnt fall from the sky!!!!!!!!!!!!! think about it, if there were :homework: no problems with crapinal you would have to use it in everything, but then planes would be fallin from the sky and until they hit one of those nutjob global warming idiots nothing would be done about it
 
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no1chevyboy said:
i wish that was the case, but its not, ive been working on motors state wide for along time and it even happens to the guy that travels out of his way and only puts good gas in his stuff, sorry i believe from what ive seen the only way to now is to test at pump and i dont know how you can do that reasonably. if the fuel came from the station he said, its a well used station, so the only answer i can come up with is only filling up at air ports were they dont force you to put fuel in your tank that will kill you yet!!!!!!!!!!!!! only your motor that doesnt fall from the sky!!!!!!!!!!!!! think about it, if there were :homework: no problems with crapinal you would have to use it in everything, but then planes would be fallin from the sky and until they hit one of those nutjob global warming idiots nothing would be done about it
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100% Accurate.

In MN (as for now anyways), OUTSIDE of the metro areas you can still buy Nonoxygenated 91 Octane gas that is like the old stuff. It is designated at the pump only for use in collector cars and off road vehicles. But what is actually in the stuff varies accross the state. If you are in a metro area it does still contain ethanol to some extent, but rurally good fuel can legally be sold. I look for that stuff and pick it up whenever I can!

Mike
 
no1chevyboy said:
i wish that was the case, but its not, ive been working on motors state wide for along time and it even happens to the guy that travels out of his way and only puts good gas in his stuff, sorry i believe from what ive seen the only way to now is to test at pump and i dont know how you can do that reasonably. if the fuel came from the station he said, its a well used station, so the only answer i can come up with is only filling up at air ports were they dont force you to put fuel in your tank that will kill you yet!!!!!!!!!!!!! only your motor that doesnt fall from the sky!!!!!!!!!!!!! think about it, if there were :homework: no problems with crapinal you would have to use it in everything, but then planes would be fallin from the sky and until they hit one of those nutjob global warming idiots nothing would be done about it
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Actually, there is an easy way to check the percentage of ethanol in the fuel you're using. The links provided in an earlier thread sell a test kit that is basically two graduated beakers. I've tested for ethanol since flex fuel vehicles hit the road. In fact most OEMs have written diagnostics into thier shop manuals for checking ethanol content.

You poor a measured amount of fuel into one beaker, then add a measured amount of water. Shake and let stand for a few minutes. If the amount of water increases, you are running some ethanol. A simple calculation will tell you how much.

There have been countless times I've filled up in the middle of nowhere. I came to the conclusion long ago that unless I'm sure of the fuel I'm burning (which is practically never), I adjust accordingly both my riding and fuel/spark delivery.

I'd rather run a little fat and lose than have someone tow me home.
 
ok, i know about those tests, but how do you now what state of phaze the fuel is at, or if it is totally phazed ,from what i hear the pumps suck from the top, well thats were the low octaine fuel that is left after phaze seperation is, if you test that it would test good, i beleive, the other thing is you have to go to pump and pump the specified amount in beaker go in pay for that go into rest room get water go back out side do the test and if its ok get back inline to fill up, im just saying these are lab tests and with fresh fuel they would work, but im not convinced they are much help in a realworld surcumstance, plus where are you carrying the beakers that there not going to get broken or the lines rubbed off, i carry a bottle of water or whatever and it looks like i dragged it the hole way after 40 miles and its packed pretty firm in rear trunk area
 
kinda dumb question but is their anyway to seperate the ethanol from the gas? To be more clear is their anyway if I pumped some gas into my plastic gas tank and let it sit for awhile for the gas and ethonal to seperate is thier anyway to almost get rid of the ethonal after it seperates?
 
if it seperates the fuel is bad low octaine on top, crapinal and water on bottom ,i do not know if there is any crapinal left on top ,but you also dont know what the octaine of the fuel is thats left on top, from what i hear its pretty low
 
no1chevyboy said:
ok, i know about those tests, but how do you now what state of phaze the fuel is at, or if it is totally phazed ,from what i hear the pumps suck from the top, well thats were the low octaine fuel that is left after phaze seperation is, if you test that it would test good, i beleive, the other thing is you have to go to pump and pump the specified amount in beaker go in pay for that go into rest room get water go back out side do the test and if its ok get back inline to fill up, im just saying these are lab tests and with fresh fuel they would work, but im not convinced they are much help in a realworld surcumstance, plus where are you carrying the beakers that there not going to get broken or the lines rubbed off, i carry a bottle of water or whatever and it looks like i dragged it the hole way after 40 miles and its packed pretty firm in rear trunk area
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I didn't say it was practical, but it is easy. Obviously, if ethanol is being used to boost octane, any seperation will leave you with reduced octane.

This is anecdotal, but I've noticed different reactions in my EGTs from time to time after filling up. In some cases (ambient conditions being the same), I've seen exhaust temps seem to climb quicker during extended WOT conditions. I've always took that as I sign of pending detonation and adjusted my riding accordingly.


Bottom line:
Unless I'm around home racing on the lake with known fuel, I suspect all other fuel stops. In other words, I don't race while trail riding or if so, I'll click it off around 80 mph. And I don't store any fuel.

Ethanol is here to stay. Might just as well figure out how to deal with it. So far, my way of dealing with it hasn't left me stranded and has kept a few of my riding buddies' sleds out of my barn.
 
If ethanol and gasoline are separating in the storage tanks it has been in there way to long and there is water already in the tank. I find it very hard to believe that there are that many problems in your area. You sound like you are being paid by a big oil company. Ethanol is here to stay, and has been here for years, keep your carbs clean, jet appropriately,and keep the gas fresh and you should be fine unless you have previously neglected you fuel system in the past. Ethanol works great at cleaning, and will also suck the moisture out of gaskets and rubber, so stay on top of it.
 
well why would i lie, this forum is to help people! right!!!!!!! what do i have to gain, BIG OIL as you put it doesnt care if you blend or cut there product the price is the same, they have had record profits in the last few years, and there product has been blended for a while know, right! it makes no sense if you are correct, i think big oil likes the blending of crapinal it makes everyone more dependent IT HAS NO SHELF LIFE so you cant store any amounts for yourself, now that makes more sense! i work on this stuff daily and state wide and im telling everyone what i see! crapinal is only here if everyone just shuts up and bends over and takes it!!!!!!!! there have been acouple different formulas and now there is this one, its crap for rec.and small motors and anything you dont use every day! and less economical in every day stuff, come on think about it open your mind and see the non benifits, because there are no real benifits to this crap you use more and get less!!!!!!!!!!!! at a greater cost!!!!!!!!!!! let your voices be heard dont stand for it or it will be here for good and bye bye to the two stroke and hello to the electric small engine which we had years ago and didnt catch on after you mowwed over the extension cord lets move ahead not decades back!!!! sorry just a little rant
 
actually, there has been a less motors lost to this fuel alone so far this year, but tons of running issues, and mostly on small carberated 4 strokes next would be large carberated four strokes then small two strokes and large two strokes i beleive the four strokes are hit the hardest because they get the best fuel economy and dont get filled as often ,as for not loseing more motors this year besides the weather the fuel sours so fast you cant even start them
 
What do you mean by "different formulas"?

At $4 a gallon for gas, I see a real benefit to ethanol. Not so much at $2 a gallon though.

Adding ethanol at a 10% clip allows 10% less gasoline to be used on a daily basis. You will not see a measureable difference in performance or mileage with this basic blend up to a 30% blend, at least on short term studies. E-85 is not what it was cracked up to be because the auto manufacturers and infrastructure are not there to support it. Brazil is 100% self reliant on ethanol cars, check their mileage out, they are getting 30-35 mpg easy with their cars, guess who makes them? Ford and Chevy! My point on this is if we want to, the technology is there to make it worth it, but obviously there is more money on the other side preventing this.
 
you must be getting payed to spread your miss information!!!!!!!! im telling every one the facts that happen every day in the real world. if your in brazil and have lived there your hole life then you can tell us all how great this fuel is in your sled, instead of passing on what someone in the media has wrote, because we all know they tell the truth lol right!!!!! sorry penquinluke33 only trying to help
 
I have never herd that the ehtonal is good in sleds their chance3131 I here it just seperates and blows em up. Maybe it cleans the stuff out becuase you have to get new ones!
 
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