89 Exciter Transformation!

prankster said:
Hahaha, i was studying human behavior and building on my cabin (i guess u had way more fun):)
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good thing you werent studying my behavior!i just wanted to replace a piston and ended up having to rebuild the whole dam sled.i have owned exciters and phazers in the past but always had the dealers fix em.it took alot of searches and reading old posts on here but i managed and learned the sled wont perform right unless everything is perfect.i had to go back to stock.get it right then modify and test,test one thing at a time.some stuff works,most dont.great learning process.still waiting to test my clutching and now i see lot of options to longtrack it.my track is about shot anyway.exciters are way harder to work on then my sxr but thats what makes it fun,right?
 
luv 455 said:
Wonder why nobody mentioned that the 2. gearing will make the sled slower then the 1.7 gears by a bunch.
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Actually, it is more likely that the sled will go faster. Taller gearing only gives you a hypothetical increase in speed at the cost of clutch efficiency. The clutch load at that ratio won't likely allow for full shift out. Load being everything from track length, lug height, snow conditions and rider weight.

It's just like a vehicle that has to tow something. You want to gear it efficiently to pull that load. Same is true for a snowmobile. There is more gearing in a snowmobile than just what is in the chain case. Your drivers have an effect and so do your clutches.

Clutching is constantly changing your gearing. However, I think it is better to load the motor from the primary clutch rather than overly tall gearing. Personal experience on different sleds is that going from even a 1.95 to a 2.25 ratio went faster and created less clutch heat. Granted these were 151" mountain sleds, but still capable of over 90mph with that gearing. This type of riding will teach you the importance of track speed as well as clutching.

When the gearing is too tall the load becomes too great. The motor can't pull the load and the clutch slips the belt as it cannot shift out all the way. I hope that helps a little.
 
I wanted to touch on a couple more things about gearing. As was stated by Lasse, most trail sleds do very well at a 2.0 gear ratio. A longer track cross over or mountain sled will typically run 2.25. If you live out in the mountains with a long track and never touch a trail you will probably run 2.50.

As you can see, it is pretty unlikely that you can gear too low. Unless you are running hard pack snow and weigh 90lbs you probably can't utilize tall gearing. As well, keep in mind that if you have a long track and out weigh your buddy by 70lbs you may have to gear down more than he does.

You want your gearing to allow for your clutches to fully shift in most conditions. Say you jump off trail in to some beautiful powder. Your sled won't pull RPM and it feels like the sled just wants to bog. Some of this can be clutching, but also your gearing. The snow (load) on your track is to much for your gearing and clutching to pull. Just an example.

I'm only saying this to get you thinking about what conditions and situations dictate a change in gearing and why. Again, I hope that helps. I don't always explain things very clearly.
 
dsc577 said:
exciters are way harder to work on then my sxr but thats what makes it fun,right?
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Well you´re right about that:) Had the same journey like you did, learned the hard and expensive way.... trial and error. works but can be very frustrating;) Anyway i like that longtrack idea, you should see my cousines 144" ex. Looks really nice.

Monte, excellent point of wievs about the gearing, i read i learn. Glad i met u guys:)
 
I'm having a BLAST working on my exciter! Too bad it's been :brr -35C :brr for the past few days, it makes it hard to work on the machines when its so cold.

I rather just RIDE!

I appreciate all the gearing and clutching information. I'm learning TONS! I never thought I would be able to demystify the snowmobile clutch! It still seems rather complicated, however I think If I change one thing at a time, I'll hopefully get to understand what changes affect what performance of the machine.

I've got the 16/33 gearing on order, and it should hopefully arrive this week. :bump: As well, I need to order a new recoil spring, mine won't recoil anymore #$%&*

As for the clutching, I will pay serious attention to this as soon as I get my gears in. I measured my belt width today, and it's 33.2mm wide. Belt deflection seems to be off by a bit, when the machine is running, and on the stand - I can turn the track by hand with barely any effort but it doesn't turn on its own. I'll order an 89L belt and start over with the shimming. I have a spare sec. cltuch I can take parts(shims) from if I need to.

Again, Thanks Lasse and Monte for setting me straight!!! And pranskter, I appreciate any testing you do at your end too! Soon we'll get this monster figured out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
luv 455 said:
Wonder why nobody mentioned that the 2. gearing will make the sled slower then the 1.7 gears by a bunch.
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How could I get any slower than 45MPH????? :dunno:

Seriously, if you read anything Lasse or Monte have been writing about in this thread or any of what I have been writing about, you would realise that these are modified sleds we are dealing with. :homework:

I welcome any information anyone has to bring about the subject of clutching, gearing and modifying the crap outta these exciters!
:yrules:
 
stanage said:
I'm having a BLAST working on my exciter! Too bad it's been :brr -35C :brr for the past few days, it makes it hard to work on the machines when its so cold.

And pranskter, I appreciate any testing you do at your end too! Soon we'll get this monster figured out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Well i´m having a blast right now in my garage too, but god damn stanage -35!! And i complained yesterday when it was -16:) The worst thing though is that my sick and creative brain comes up with more ideas everytime i´m in the garage......

I´ll let u know my progress with the clutchwork along the way:) Please share your experiences with the 16/33 gearing i´m planning to put that on mine aswell
 
So did you leave the front bolt of the rear suspension in the new spot? How is it working out? I would think down and slightly back would be better but if it's working out that's great. For really deep snow I think slightly back from original position would keep a good low angle of attack to climb up on top of the snow rather than trench. That's how I ran one of my old Phazers and it was a deep snow king. Nice work, you've really put some work in.
 
phazer35 said:
So did you leave the front bolt of the rear suspension in the new spot? How is it working out? I would think down and slightly back would be better but if it's working out that's great. For really deep snow I think slightly back from original position would keep a good low angle of attack to climb up on top of the snow rather than trench. That's how I ran one of my old Phazers and it was a deep snow king. Nice work, you've really put some work in.
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It IS working out, however I fear that I'll need to move it back and down, as you say, once my new track starts to stretch because Im at the end of my track adjusters. It's not a big deal right now, and I do have a 1/4 inch or so until it maxes out, but Im fairly sure I'll need to move the skid back at some point.

I love the long track, and with al lthe snow Ottawa's been getting, Ive been able to off trail alot and cruze up some steap inclines and then jump the lips that are full of powder! It's a great setup and a much different machine than when I got it. Trail riding is OK, but when I see all that fresh powder I just wanna nail it! I love punching through snow drifts and climbing hill lips!! I'll get my gopro working soon and take some sick vids...
 
This weekend I was out on my brother’s sled gathering fallen trees in the bush. Now I have 5 maples sitting in my yard, so I have plenty of firewood to heat my garage! Time to get to work!

I did manage to get on my exciter, but the recoil I fixed somehow broke again. I put a brand new spring in, and I tested it on Friday night, and it was fine. I started it again on Saturday morning, and it was fine. I started it again on Sunday, and the second time I started it the cord wouldn't recoil. I'm disapointed to say the least.

Also I'm realizing I need to adjust my idle, it’s way too low, it's at 800RPM for some reason... I'll crank that up to 1600RPM this week. And I find I need to run the machine for a while for it to find it's proper idle, just warming it up in my garage doesn't do it...

I also hope to get my new gears this week, although I’m not sure I'll get to take the sled out anytime soon, it's supposed to rain like crazy!

On top of that, I managed to find a NOS 6FL68 needle!! It's in the mail along with an 89L belt. I think I'll tell my brother to pick up some clutch tools this week so I can take apart my primary clutch.

Everything is starting to come together, it's just the recoil spring, needle, clutching and gearing thats left to do..... ;)!
 
I had ordered a 6FL68 needle from speedsupplies.com, but they cancelled my order saying they didn't have it in stock... so today I did another search and found this!

http://psndealer.com/dealersite/images/colomamotorsports/ya parts.htm

This lists all the NOS parts that Coloma Motor Sports has IN STOCK! I called, and they have four 239-14116-68-00 needles in stock! Actually, they only have 3 - I ordered one!

How sweet is that?
 
stanage said:
Today I called a Yamaha dealer ( Coloma Motor Sports ) and they had part # 239-14116-68-00 ( 6FL68 ) needle in stock!
How sweet is that ?
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Sounds great ! ;)!
 
Update!

So, I haven't gotten my gears yet :( :o|
Not sure when I'll get them, but oh well - gives me time to work on the clutches!

I finally got around to taking apart my secondary clutches, and have the following:

Secondary Clutch #1
This clutch has two shims installed in the middle, for a wider belt, so Im going to keep that for use on my 89L belt.
The helix is slightly machined at the tip of the ramp, and the back of it seems to have been machined as well. (See Pics)
It has a black spring with a white tip.
This clutch spring was positioned in B-3.
This clutch performs well, and is what I currently use.


Secondary Clutch #2
This clutch had no shims installed in the middle.
The helix is stock, not machined in any way.
The spring is black, with a pink tip.
Setting on this was A-2

I Noticed the black/white spring seems to be longer than the black/pink spring - not sure what would change if I used one or the other?

here are some pics...

This is a pic of the machines helixes
IMG_1753.jpg


This is the back of the helixes, why would one be deeper than the other???
IMG_1752.jpg


Here are the springs - is it just me, or does the black/white look longer??? Or is it perhaps less tired???
IMG_1756.jpg



Any recommendations?

I was thinking,

Spring in A-2 (As per Lasse's recommendations)
Black/White spring
Non-machined Helix
 
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I would go b2 (for powder, but i suggest u test which one that fits your purpose the most)

Black/white

non-machined helix :)

hope u get your gears soon!
 
machined helix is for wide belt,two shims for new belt-1 used,0,used up belt,cant run a-1 or b-3,set it up stock and go from there,theres a bushing on the backside of clutch helix fits yhrew,replace or use best one,if its chewed up forget it,---white spring-A-2,should pull at least 7200 rpm,if not move it to B-2,if you are using a wide belt and the machined helix you dont need any extra shims,also seeing you have two clutches notice side wobble when you put the two together empty,use the two that fit tightest,
 
prankster said:
I would go b2 (for powder, but i suggest u test which one that fits your purpose the most)

Black/white

non-machined helix :)

hope u get your gears soon!
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What is the difference between a1,a2,a3, b1,b2,b3 and c1,c2,c3???

Im going with either b2 or a2 for now.... until I find a replacement spring...
 
dsc577 said:
machined helix is for wide belt,two shims for new belt-1 used,0,used up belt,cant run a-1 or b-3,set it up stock and go from there,theres a bushing on the backside of clutch helix fits yhrew,replace or use best one,if its chewed up forget it,---white spring-A-2,should pull at least 7200 rpm,if not move it to B-2,if you are using a wide belt and the machined helix you dont need any extra shims,also seeing you have two clutches notice side wobble when you put the two together empty,use the two that fit tightest,
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Interesting, so the machined helix is better for use with the 89L belt I just got? And no shims. OK. Im gonna try this tonight with A2, and then B2 to see what difference it makes.

I find that with the shimmed clutch I top out at 6600RPM, and although it revs to 7500 there is no increase in speed - it just flattens out. You saying if I change the spring position to A2, I should be able to rev to 7200rpm?
 
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