The skinny on Yamalube (by nosboy)

My take on it is stay away from TC-W3 in sleds it's a PWC boat spec Say you have a "dirt bike oil" that is TC-W3 rated. but if your boat motor recommends TC-W3 then yes it will interchange or vice versa.

Two stroke oil is meant to do the same in every application however add packs can be different for different demands.

Example a boat motor usually stays at a specific RPM range for long periods While a sled can rev to the moon and back and the RPM's are always changing.

sled oil's usually uses a low ash detergent better for it's cyclic use. Boat oils (TC-W3 rated)use ash less dispersant to avoid plug fouling from the metallic ash that may build up during constant run speeds. From a lubricity standpoint both will do the job.

it's all in the add pack TC-W3 in water JASO in bikes sleds...
 
I've learned a lot from this post. The one thing that I didn't learn what's so bad about Yamalube? All I use is Yamalube and I've never had a problem. When I was younger I wouldn't put any fuel conditioner in my gas and my carbs were always clean in the fall, when others were gummed shut. Is it Citgo oil repackaged? I don't know, I don't care. One thing that I do care about is how much money the Dealer charges for it. I swear by yamalube but right now I'm starting to swear at the price. It's highway robbery what they charge for a semi-synthetic oil. No one has proven Yamalube bad but there has been a lot of good information on how to find a quality alternative.
 
Dan no one or me are saying yamalube is bad(go back and read posts),BUT for the money and what you get(or not getting)it's not that great of and oil,for a few more bucks one can get a full synthetic with all it's benefits,use what works for you and your wallet..
 
Sorry, I must have been reading this post so long that I lost focus on the original content. It took one night and the next morning to get through.
 
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Why Synthetic over Conventional?

OK -- you guys are going to love this.... From Dec. 2004 American Snowmobiler Magazine.... They recommend using synthetic oils to counter the adverse effects of alcohol in today's gas on internal engine components!!!!!!!

"As an alcohol, MTBE also has the advantage of absorbing water, which is good news for snowmobilers who used to carry bottles of isopropyl along to absorb water in the gas.
What are MTBE's negative effects?
MTBE may corrode fuel injectors and aluminum passages and hardens some plastic and rubber components in fuel systems, but the gas also usually has some additives to prevent this. More of a concern for owners of 2-stroke engines may be that it could dilute petroleum-based oils and influence engine lubrication.
The good news is that the new synthetic oils are not affected, so if you haven't switched to synthetic oil, now would be a good time to do so. Synthetic oil mixes also reduce the corrosive tendencies of the alcohol content, so it pays off with extra protection for bearings, aluminum parts, and injection equipment...."

They surmise that synthetic oils help protect internal engine parts from alcohol corrosion!!!!!

Thanks for listening!

Mike


:nos:
 
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mntvipermn said:
OK -- you guys are going to love this.... From Dec. 2004 American Snowmobiler Magazine.... They recommend using synthetic oils to counter the adverse effects of alcohol in today's gas on internal engine components!!!!!!!

"As an alcohol, MTBE also has the advantage of absorbing water, which is good news for snowmobilers who used to carry bottles of isopropyl along to absorb water in the gas.
What are MTBE's negative effects?
MTBE may corrode fuel injectors and aluminum passages and hardens some plastic and rubber components in fuel systems, but the gas also usually has some additives to prevent this. More of a concern for owners of 2-stroke engines may be that it could dilute petroleum-based oils and influence engine lubrication.
The good news is that the new synthetic oils are not affected, so if you haven't switched to synthetic oil, now would be a good time to do so. Synthetic oil mixes also reduce the corrosive tendencies of the alcohol content, so it pays off with extra protection for bearings, aluminum parts, and injection equipment...."

They surmise that synthetic oils help protect internal engine parts from alcohol corrosion!!!!!

Thanks for listening!

Mike


:nos:
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Good info. It makes sense that synthetic oil is ideal with E10 fuels.
 
More on the subject.....

Here is some paragraphs from the February 2004 American Snowmobiler magazine:

Talking about 2 stroke oils......

"Petroleum-based stocks start to oxidate rapidly around 250°F. With additives, the current upper limit hovers around 300°F. The synthetic lubricants can normally be made to withstand 500°F, and with more refinements the upper limits can be pushed to 700°F.

This tolerance for higher temperature means less deposits and more lubricant left on bearing surfaces. Klotz moved into developing synthetic oils to eliminate the problems occurring with petroleum oil: burning, carbon deposits, plug fowling and scuffing. In two-stroke engines, the area around the exhaust port timing edges gets very hot. Synthetic oils with high temperature tolerance and better film strength offer much better protection against piston scuffing than petroleum- based oil, particularly in engines with multiple exhaust ports and hot bridges.

With high temperature tolerance comes less deposits. Petroleum oils start burning sooner and deposit carbon in ring grooves, on power valves, on spark plugs and in exhaust systems. Clean burning synthetics leave the ring free and lubricated, the spark plugs free of deposits and power valves operating correctly longer. They also drastically reduce deposits in the exhaust system.
Superior film strength is a great advantage when it comes to synthetics. The moving parts in an engine are supported by a film that is only a few molecules thick. In cases of high pressure and excessive pounding, some breakdown of lubrication occurs, causing metal-to-metal contact and fusing of engine components. This is critical in two-stroke engines with the line and point contacts of needle bearings and ball bearings in the crank.

Conventional oils are dynamic in terms of their lubricant properties, this means they need motion to create a protective film. Synthetic lubricants need no motion, they have such a high film strength that they actually roll with the engine parts and resist shearing of the film from the minute you start the engine.

With new emission requirements, fuel will be injected directly into the cylinder. With no fuel mix to cool the crankcase, good oils are needed to lubricate the cranks at higher temperatures and leaner oil ratios. At the moment, synthetics offer the best high temperature protection for these future engines. If you can add more performance, less maintenance, cleaner engines and better fuel mileage, what's not to like about synthetic oils?"


More information for everybody to chew on!!!!!!
 
mntvipermn said:
Here is some paragraphs from the February 2004 American Snowmobiler magazine:

Talking about 2 stroke oils......

"Petroleum-based stocks start to oxidate rapidly around 250°F. With additives, the current upper limit hovers around 300°F. The synthetic lubricants can normally be made to withstand 500°F, and with more refinements the upper limits can be pushed to 700°F.

This tolerance for higher temperature means less deposits and more lubricant left on bearing surfaces. Klotz moved into developing synthetic oils to eliminate the problems occurring with petroleum oil: burning, carbon deposits, plug fowling and scuffing. In two-stroke engines, the area around the exhaust port timing edges gets very hot. Synthetic oils with high temperature tolerance and better film strength offer much better protection against piston scuffing than petroleum- based oil, particularly in engines with multiple exhaust ports and hot bridges.

With high temperature tolerance comes less deposits. Petroleum oils start burning sooner and deposit carbon in ring grooves, on power valves, on spark plugs and in exhaust systems. Clean burning synthetics leave the ring free and lubricated, the spark plugs free of deposits and power valves operating correctly longer. They also drastically reduce deposits in the exhaust system.
Superior film strength is a great advantage when it comes to synthetics. The moving parts in an engine are supported by a film that is only a few molecules thick. In cases of high pressure and excessive pounding, some breakdown of lubrication occurs, causing metal-to-metal contact and fusing of engine components. This is critical in two-stroke engines with the line and point contacts of needle bearings and ball bearings in the crank.

Conventional oils are dynamic in terms of their lubricant properties, this means they need motion to create a protective film. Synthetic lubricants need no motion, they have such a high film strength that they actually roll with the engine parts and resist shearing of the film from the minute you start the engine.

HTML: 
With new emission requirements, fuel will be injected directly into the cylinder. With no fuel mix to cool the crankcase, good oils are needed to lubricate the cranks at higher temperatures and leaner oil ratios.
At the moment, synthetics offer the best high temperature protection for these future engines. If you can add more performance, less maintenance, cleaner engines and better fuel mileage, what's not to like about synthetic oils?"


More information for everybody to chew on!!!!!!
Click to expand...
Maybe this answers my question why Polaris would deliver the Dragon 700 at 20:1
 
synthetic oil

Great info on the posts.....never saw the need for synthetic before because of price. I thought God made Yamalube. I am now a convert and will be switching everything over. Thanks guys.
 
mntvipermn said:
Here is some paragraphs from the February 2004 American Snowmobiler magazine:

Talking about 2 stroke oils......

"Petroleum-based stocks start to oxidate rapidly around 250°F. With additives, the current upper limit hovers around 300°F. The synthetic lubricants can normally be made to withstand 500°F, and with more refinements the upper limits can be pushed to 700°F.

This tolerance for higher temperature means less deposits and more lubricant left on bearing surfaces. Klotz moved into developing synthetic oils to eliminate the problems occurring with petroleum oil: burning, carbon deposits, plug fowling and scuffing. In two-stroke engines, the area around the exhaust port timing edges gets very hot. Synthetic oils with high temperature tolerance and better film strength offer much better protection against piston scuffing than petroleum- based oil, particularly in engines with multiple exhaust ports and hot bridges.

With high temperature tolerance comes less deposits. Petroleum oils start burning sooner and deposit carbon in ring grooves, on power valves, on spark plugs and in exhaust systems. Clean burning synthetics leave the ring free and lubricated, the spark plugs free of deposits and power valves operating correctly longer. They also drastically reduce deposits in the exhaust system.
Superior film strength is a great advantage when it comes to synthetics. The moving parts in an engine are supported by a film that is only a few molecules thick. In cases of high pressure and excessive pounding, some breakdown of lubrication occurs, causing metal-to-metal contact and fusing of engine components. This is critical in two-stroke engines with the line and point contacts of needle bearings and ball bearings in the crank.

Conventional oils are dynamic in terms of their lubricant properties, this means they need motion to create a protective film. Synthetic lubricants need no motion, they have such a high film strength that they actually roll with the engine parts and resist shearing of the film from the minute you start the engine.

With new emission requirements, fuel will be injected directly into the cylinder. With no fuel mix to cool the crankcase, good oils are needed to lubricate the cranks at higher temperatures and leaner oil ratios. At the moment, synthetics offer the best high temperature protection for these future engines. If you can add more performance, less maintenance, cleaner engines and better fuel mileage, what's not to like about synthetic oils?"


More information for everybody to chew on!!!!!!
Click to expand...
This is a pretty good article but it needs a few Refinements Itself. lol.... Synthetic oils are not refined they are made. in order to get higher temp. protection they add a little more of a particular base stock.
Superior film strength is a Great advantage to Synthetics but it is also something that is added. How much you add to your formula can increase your engine protection during cold starts and also protect during summer storage. While the motor is running the oil itself is doing the protecting, Some call this process film strength. If the Oil breaks down from heat,shear,oxidation then the protective addative in synthetic oils will do its job. Any type of oil can meet or be approved for these standards but the question is how long will they maintain those particular properties. Synthetics maintain them for much longer!
The next paragraph about conventional oils being dynamic in terms of lubricant propeties is very confusing. Oil are both kinematic and dynamic, How the particular Oil formula reacts determines its properties. The additive in the sunthetic protects it during cold starts as discussed earlier. when you shut your motor off and leave it sit petroleum oil will drain off of all surfaces, hence the loss of protection during your next starting process. which could in turn cause scratching and/or scaring of any moving parts in the motor, beginning the breakdown process and inviting further damage.
Now, it's time for a quick advertisement!
Most Synthetic oil companies are all using the exact same base stock which make up 80% of thier composition. the other 20% of the oil is synthetic additives to reduce friction, add film protection, detergent, some feel the need for friction modifiers and several other possibilities. How much of each component the company adds determines the ability to lubricate properly. Who has the most experince and best team will probably be making the best oil available for your application. This article said that Klotz started with petroleum and moved on to synthetics, Amsoil started with Synthetics in 1972 and was the first to introduce synthetic lubrication to the public. The rest are finally getting on the band wagon.36 years experience should speak for itself. We hire only the best scientist to help formulate our products and continue to stay ahead of all other competitors by leaps and bounds.
www.SSOilTech.com
 
duheme said:
There is no problem switching from Yamalube to a synthetics like amsoil
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When I switched I just tried to use up as much Yamalube out of the reservior as i could and then I filled it up with Interceptor oil when it was pretty empty.

But I think they readily mix.

As I recall somewhere, I think switching to synthetic oil from conventional slightly richens your oil/fuel delivery up a slight bit, as an added benefit.

That is what I heard anyways.... (Don't you believe everything you hear??????)

Mike
 
I had been running Citgo Sea & Snow for about $9/gal until Meijer ran a sale on Citgo Marine 2 cycle TCW3. I got 10 gallons for $6 each. Been running both in my 04 Viper-S with 4,000 miles. The compression was fine, just wanted to freshen up the top end. Absolutely no scuffing or abnormal wear still a good clean cross hatch and the power valves slid right out , no gooey mess. Took the cylinders up to the Yamaha dealer, to get them honed, mechanic looked at me like I was crazy for taking it apart. So let's see synthetic @ $28x10=$280 or $60 and I clean and adjust power valves once every other year and re-ring $60rings, $45 head gasket, $15 base gasket. I'm still $160 ahead and I've got a fresh top end at 4,000 miles.
 
maybe its just me, or i am stupid and don't know what i am looking for or whatever the case may be but..... i have never had, knew of anyone in our group that had, or heard of anyone in close vicinity to where i live, that experienced an oil related engine problem in the last +25 years. all these people have been running difference oils from different OEMs and maybe, whatever was available.
 
My only comment on amsoil is why the heck don't they abandon that Amway like pyramid marketing scheme and just sell their products in stores. IMO it cheapens your image. Products sold that way are usually too weak to stand against open market competition. I like Amsoil products but stay away usually because I'm left wondering if I'm paying for oil or mostly commissions.
 
OnDaTrail said:
My only comment on amsoil is why the heck don't they abandon that Amway like pyramid marketing scheme and just sell their products in stores. IMO it cheapens your image. Products sold that way are usually too weak to stand against open market competition. I like Amsoil products but stay away usually because I'm left wondering if I'm paying for oil or mostly commissions.
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They by and large have. They are based out of Superior, WI (right next to Duluth, MN), and you can buy Amsoil around here at almost any retailer (L+M, NAPA, Autozone, O'reilys, Fleet Farm, etc). But these are at retail locations in states neighboring MN.

I don't want to speak out of turn, but I think a few things are factoring in here: Too small a distribution network, with not good national focus; Name recognition good regionally, but not well known nationally; a company whose mangement holds the company back on purpose a little -- not wanting to grow toooo fast. There are other issues and reasons also I suppose.

Another issue as OnDaTrail spoke of is the existing old pyramid style distribution network -- how Amsoil began. It is holding them back now, to some extent. But these are the people and businesses who believed in them years ago, when the company was small and not well known. So Amsoil probably still feels beholden to them, even though they have outgrown that business model.

My thoughts anyways.

Mike
 
Amsoil is pretty well known, available, and respected in my neck of the woods...Canada Eh! I like + use their products in some of my toys but am still loyal to another brand in my sleds, although my SRX is the only power valve sled I've used my old brand in. My valves were a mess after last winter, I think mostly due to my old habit [read: I'm having to kick old habits!] of richening up my oil pump settings to max flow for crank life in all my piston port engines!
 
Holy Balls! I made it to the end! Wow some great info there once I sifted through it all. I read an equally long thread this summer on buelletinboard on 4 stroke motorcycle oil. Lots of the same info, just a little different application.

I have always ran a good name brand oil in my sleds, yamalube when I was younger because my uncle was the parts guy at the marina and I could get it for cheap. Then I went to pre-mix/race gas sleds for a while and ran Klotz, I also run Klotz in my bike(4stroke). I love the way it smells, but damn its expensive. Amsoil is much easier to be had around here, but I am like someone said earlier, leary to buy it because it seems that the price range is so vast that I think I can find it cheaper somewhere else. Anyone a dealer on here for either Amsoil or Klotz?

Meat
 
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I admit I did not read all 24 pages so far on this thread, but it is interesting to see how, generally, everyone is with respect to oil. And more importantly how passionate we all are for snowmobiles. I love it!

Anyway after giving all of you a hug, I would like to add that after 3 months of drilling down into the whole oil thing for a different application, aircraft engines, I did learn a few things that would be of interest here. One all mineral oils, all synthetic oils come from a base stock. This occurs at a refinery (mineral oil) or labratory (synthetic). From there the base stock is sold to whoever, and then, to quote a famous chef, they add a "secret blend of herbs and spices." Usually the higher end guys, Shell, Exxon, BP and so forth put more ingredients into theirs. Hence the reason its a little more expensive.

Point is there is only two types of lubricants available to us, mineral based or synthetic. Maybe two and half as you can blend them as well.
 
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