usfs police

snomofo said:
Did she motion you to stop?

btw - a federal immigration officer can insist on seeing your identification at any time without probable cause. Kinda made the whoopla over Arizona's immigration law so silly... especially the AG's pursuit of injunction to stop it's enforcement.
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Federal being the key word, nothing silly about it at all.
 
sorry,,I was in my car coming back from fishing trip,,, If I was on my sled there would have been no way not to stop she had a line of 12-16 sleds stopped and backed up. She was on a tight section next to road, She must have been checking somthing for them to get that backed up
cheers
 
BrandXGuy said:
Federal being the key word, nothing silly about it at all.
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So you failed to see the irony of the federal government pursuing a legal challange to a state law that, on paper, dictated a probable cause requirement that the feds themselves do not require?

Unlike most challanges to a law, this one didn't require an actual civil rights infraction. Just the possibility of one.

All while the state pays the costs of illegal immigration because the feds are failing to perform a constitutional duty.

Maybe you're right, pathetic is more like it.
 
snomofo said:
So you failed to see the irony of the federal government pursuing a legal challange to a state law that, on paper, dictated a probable cause requirement that the feds themselves do not require?

Unlike most challanges to a law, this one didn't require an actual civil rights infraction. Just the possibility of one.

All while the state pays the costs of illegal immigration because the feds are failing to perform a constitutional duty.

Maybe you're right, pathetic is more like it.
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Irony is you bringing up "constitutional duty" when it's clear that only applies when it's something that you agree with. You sure are good at hijacking threads though....
 
Does everyone know that when being issued a ticket on a snowmobile u have the right to have the ticket written under the DNR law. That way its only a fine, no points on ur license.
 
Wow this thread has taken a turn. I am still curious if this was indeed a USFS ranger stopping sleds? The reason I have a problem with this is because of the ongoing battle with the feds trying to close down National Forests to all snowmobiles and firearm hunting. So now are the Feds trying to make their presence known on our trails as if they have some sort of control over our states snowmobile trails? I am not defending drunk driving but this is a loop hole that clearly violates the MI State Constitution regarding illegal search/siezure/stopping without a cause. Have you ever seen Federal agents stopping cars to check for valid registration paperwork?????????????
 
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Everything said in this thread is just one tiny little step toward the government controlling everything we do. They do not want people to think freely & do what they want (within reason). Eventually everyone will be doing as they're told, sitting around waiting for thier government handout(welfare), & thinking this is how things are supposed to be. Around here if the cops are called to say a domestic disturbance, the neighbor could be the one calling, They come out, everything is fine. Somebody IS going to jail for the night. You say I don't want to press charges, that's fine, the prosecutor will press them anyway. If you get caugth doing something illegal, fine, you get in trouble. Our tax dollars should not be paying these people (cops, dnr, usfs, public safety) to just sit around here & there to watch the public like a hawk, waiting to swoop in & empty your wallet. That's really what they're after, your money. They're so bad around here we have our own saying. Come for vacation, leave on probation. Our local judges are said to be part owners of the local jail & surrounding property. Like holiday inn, if the rooms are full, you're makin money.
 
BrandXGuy said:
Irony is you bringing up "constitutional duty" when it's clear that only applies when it's something that you agree with. You sure are good at hijacking threads though....
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Being a new member perhaps you're not aware that when Gary replies nearly anything goes as witnessed by the turn this thread took. Nice try at deflection though.

So your interpretation of constitutional duty differs from mine making it superior. And you, like the appeals judge can read the future.

Impressive earthling.
 
paulw said:
Does everyone know that when being issued a ticket on a snowmobile u have the right to have the ticket written under the DNR law. That way its only a fine, no points on ur license.
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Please explain. Does this apply to basic traffic infractions like rolling through a stop sign or careless/reckless driving?
 
ottawaair said:
Everything said in this thread is just one tiny little step toward the government controlling everything we do. They do not want people to think freely & do what they want (within reason). Eventually everyone will be doing as they're told, sitting around waiting for thier government handout(welfare), & thinking this is how things are supposed to be. Around here if the cops are called to say a domestic disturbance, the neighbor could be the one calling, They come out, everything is fine. Somebody IS going to jail for the night. You say I don't want to press charges, that's fine, the prosecutor will press them anyway. If you get caugth doing something illegal, fine, you get in trouble. Our tax dollars should not be paying these people (cops, dnr, usfs, public safety) to just sit around here & there to watch the public like a hawk, waiting to swoop in & empty your wallet. That's really what they're after, your money. They're so bad around here we have our own saying. Come for vacation, leave on probation. Our local judges are said to be part owners of the local jail & surrounding property. Like holiday inn, if the rooms are full, you're makin money.
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couldn't have said it better myself. i don't think we should have to pay for law enforcement to to watch our every move. to take it back to the original post. if an officer has nothing better to do than sit at a trail intersection to "check registrations",(just code for sidestepping the 4th amendment so he can search anyone) than that officer should have the day off.
 
snomofo said:
Please don't take this wrong Mike, but I'm guessing the only time one would see a CO on the side of a trail with the hood up is on a public trail that registrations and trail permits pay for, so....

If one ain't legal in that regard than they're no better than a common poacher and they don't deserve a heads up.

I do have a problem with folks that genuinely don't ride a public trail like a river/waterway or roadway (i.e. never sees a groomer) yet still must buy a $35.00 trail permit. But since they're such a small minority that'll never change.
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people around here are constantly complaining about that one. we have a great river system around here and sometimes it's only rideable for a few weeks. if some guy wants to get out the old sleds for the family to ride he's looking at spending more than one of the machines is worth just to be legal.
 
nosboy said:
It's better to give them their way.. (kinda like fighting with my wife).. What does it hurt??? Is it breaking laws???? Everybody breaks laws ( just so you know).. Even the people who uphold the laws.. Is it right???? Is a LOT OF THINGS RIGHT????? It's better just to take it and biTcH about it on TOTALLYAMAHA than take it up with a guy with a pistol that has the authority to LOCK YOU UP and cost you a BUNCH OF MONEY just for PiSSinG HiM OFF !!!!
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this is the attitude that got us into this situation in the first place. the police work for us. we pay their saleries. but when you say that nowadays, people laugh like it's some old cliche.
 
BBlueSRX said:
Wow this thread has taken a turn. I am still curious if this was indeed a USFS ranger stopping sleds? The reason I have a problem with this is because of the ongoing battle with the feds trying to close down National Forests to all snowmobiles and firearm hunting. So now are the Feds trying to make their presence known on our trails as if they have some sort of control over our states snowmobile trails? I am not defending drunk driving but this is a loop hole that clearly violates the MI State Constitution regarding illegal search/siezure/stopping without a cause. Have you ever seen Federal agents stopping cars to check for valid registration paperwork?????????????
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I thought the recent legal actions being taken regarding shared use in the Huron-Manistee National forest was from a retired lawyer against the USFS.

Here's a link to the Detroit News article...

http://detnews.com/article/20110210/METRO/102100422/Storm-brews-over-noisy-use-of-national-forests

...and living in a border community I have seen federal border agents stopped on the side of the road along with our local township or state/county LEOs apprehending illegals. They work together unlike the sanctuary city that is further South where it is forbidden for a local LEO to inquire about one's legal status.

But no, I've not seen a USFS employee checking "papers" nor do I think that would/should be part of thier job.
 
snomofo said:
Being a new member perhaps you're not aware that when Gary replies nearly anything goes as witnessed by the turn this thread took. Nice try at deflection though.

So your interpretation of constitutional duty differs from mine making it superior. And you, like the appeals judge can read the future.

Impressive earthling.
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OK then, when exactly did the Feds start failing to do their "constitutional duty" and by what criteria do you base said failure on?

And you talking about deflection is another irony, because civil rights violations are going to happen under SB1070, not if but when is the only question regardless of your snarky comments and what the hell this has to with snowmobiling in Michigan or to blame it on Gary is the very definition of it.
 
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Come on guys, it really was not that big of a deal. Just agree to disagree and move on. Snow is melting anyway. Next winter will be better. Al
 
BrandXGuy said:
OK then, when exactly did the Feds start failing to do their "constitutional duty" and by what criteria do you base said failure on?

And you talking about deflection is another irony, because civil rights violations are going to happen under SB1070, not if but when is the only question regardless of your snarky comments and what the hell this has to with snowmobiling in Michigan or to blame it on Gary is the very definition of it.
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A1 - Long before Eric Holder showed up.
A2 - Article 3, Section 3 "shall take care that the laws be faithfully executed"

We obviously hold different views about SB1070 and since, as you point out, it's so far off topic - as Al suggests lets agree to disagree.

I guess a guilty pleasure of mine is to respond "snarkly" to Gary's snark, which in turn causes others to snark so in the end, only drives the conversation to this level.

Again, as you point out it's no excuse so I apologize to you and other members for allowing myself to be baited and expressing my off topic views.
 
ticket

snomofo said:
Please explain. Does this apply to basic traffic infractions like rolling through a stop sign or careless/reckless driving?
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Yes, two years ago a friend and I were given tickets for careless diving north of paradise mi. Search thread (two tickets in paradise) for details. The group i had recieved a ticket two years earlier for trespassing, and the DNR officer was very nice and only gave the lead rider the ticket and we were able to split the cost $110. He told us that on a sled we had the right to have the ticket issue under the DNR laws which is no points. (There ws no points for trespassing anyways but he wanted us to know that.) So when issued the careless driving tickets we told the sherriffs and they agreed. Those ticket were $150 each.
 
snomofo said:
A1 - Long before Eric Holder showed up.
A2 - Article 3, Section 3 "shall take care that the laws be faithfully executed"

We obviously hold different views about SB1070 and since, as you point out, it's so far off topic - as Al suggests lets agree to disagree.

I guess a guilty pleasure of mine is to respond "snarkly" to Gary's snark, which in turn causes others to snark so in the end, only drives the conversation to this level.

Again, as you point out it's no excuse so I apologize to you and other members for allowing myself to be baited and expressing my off topic views.
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Good enough, I'm also sincerely sorry if I offended anyone as well. I have used this site for info long before I actually signed up so I could ask a question and I would hate it if anyone thought I didn't appreciate this place for what it is, the greatest Yamaha website out there IMO.
 
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BigTimeFarmer said:
people around here are constantly complaining about that one. we have a great river system around here and sometimes it's only rideable for a few weeks. if some guy wants to get out the old sleds for the family to ride he's looking at spending more than one of the machines is worth just to be legal.
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The right answer to a trail permit stop was to say you're on your way out to your shanty. Now, the CO said that he would give you the benifit of the dought (if you had a valid fishing licence and current registration) but if he later saw you just riding around another half dozen times he'd probably write the ticket.

They were set up around a tight corner of the river and while I was talking to one CO, the other two were stopping ALL ATVs but only stopping sleds without trail permits or missing/expired registrations.

This was on a river that emptied into Lk. St. Clair.
 
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