Dave M
New member
nosboy said:
According to ALL the definitions I have found...the breakdown to TC-W3 is:
TC= two cycle
W = water cooled
3 = 3rd generation of tc-w oil
So how does "W" stand for winter ???
I believe you are getting confused.
The "W" has been classified by the SOCIETY OF AUTOMOTIVE ENGINEERS (SAE) for about 50 years.. Have you ever heard of 10 W 30 oil??? Maybe tcw-3 oil is good for watercraft engines,,but tcw oils have been around BEFORE watercraft were called watercraft... I remember wave runners around MID 1970's.....
I'll start another post to talk about DIRTY POWERVALVES and 2 stroke oil,,, but IT DRIVES ME CRAZY when people coorelate dirty powervalves with the BRAND of oil they use.... HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN IT TO YOU!!!!
bluewho
Active member
6343er6344!!!!
Dave M
New member
nosboy said:
Yes the w stands for winter in a 4 cycle sae approved oil.....
BUT...
This conversation is about 2 stroke oils...
The SAE has nothing to do with the TC-W3... it is a registered trademark and specification from NMMA.
Here is a copy from a leading oil manufacturer on 2 stroke oil specifications....
Specifications for 2 strokes
NMMA TC-W3 – two cycle water-cooled, third generation. TC-W3 obsoletes TC-W & TC-WII. Oils with this spec typically do not use metal based additives, and are ashless. This is an outboard specific spec.
API TC – only API spec established for two cycle engines. It regulates lubricity, detergency, ash content & pre-ignition. Oils with this spec are typically using metal based, ash producing additives.
JASO FA – original spec established regulating lubricity, detergency, initial torque, exhaust smoke, and exhaust system blocking. Now obsolete.
JASO FB – increased lubricity requirements over FA.
JASO FC – lubricity and initial torque requirements same as FB, however far higher detergency, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking requirements over FB.
JASO FD - same as FC with far higher detergency requirement.
ISO-L-EGB – same tests and requirements as JASO FB.
ISO-L-EGC – same tests and slightly higher detergency requirements (piston varnish) as JASO FC.
ISO-L-EGD – same tests and requirements as JASO FD
API
JASO
ISO
FA
Good
FB
EGB
Better
TC
FC
EGC
Best
FD
EGD
- National Marine Manufacturers Association (NMMA) is based in the USA.
- American Petroleum Institute (API) is based in the USA.
- Japanese Automobile Standards Organization (JASO) is based in Japan.
- International Standards Organization (ISO) is based in Europe.
Sorry to burst your over-inflated ego...but you are wrong this time.
journeyman
Active member
PhatboyC said:
I use the same gas from the same station as my Dad does. We have idenitcle Vipers. He has always used Yamalube and his PV's are very clean. What I am saying is: I didn't see a significant difference using the Amsoil so why pay more to run it...?? I may as well spend about $10-12 less and get the same or better results. I am not trying to knock anyone's oil. I just figure if it meets the requirements needed to keep my motor running good, why spend more.......
Yamalube
Last Year I compared Citgo Sea@Snow witch I bought at Farm @ Fleet to Yamalube,bought at Cycle Craft Yamaha, it was two complete diffrent colors,when you follow a sled with offbrand oil,you can smell it,all over you're clothes too
Last Year I compared Citgo Sea@Snow witch I bought at Farm @ Fleet to Yamalube,bought at Cycle Craft Yamaha, it was two complete diffrent colors,when you follow a sled with offbrand oil,you can smell it,all over you're clothes too
duheme
Life Member
Specifications for Two Stroke Oil
-NMMA TC-W3 – two cycle water-cooled, third generation. TC-W3 obsoletes TC-W & TC-WII. Oils with this spec do not use metal based additives, and are ashless. This is an outboard specific spec.
-API TC – only API spec established for two cycle engines. It regulates lubricity, detergency, ash content & pre-ignition. Oils with this spec are typically using metal based, ash producing additives.
-JASO FA – original spec established regulating lubricity, detergency, initial torque, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking.
-JASO FB – increased lubricity, detergency, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking requirements over FA.
-JASO FC – lubricity and initial torque requirements same as FB, however far higher detergency, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking requirements over FB.
-JASO FD - same as FC with far higher detergency requirement.
-ISO-L-EGB – same tests and requirements as JASO FB.
-ISO-L-EGC – same tests and slightly higher detergency requirements (piston varnish) as JASO FC.
-ISO-L-EGD – same tests and requirements as JASO FD.
• National Marine Manufacturers Association (NMMA) is based in the USA.
• American Petroleum Institute (API) is based in the USA.
• Japanese Automobile Standards Organization (JASO) is based in Japan.
• International Standards Organization (ISO) is based in Europe.
These specs are established by different governing bodies located in various parts of the world. They all serve the same purpose; to give consumers a quantifiable way to measure the quality of 2 stroke oil.
What does all this mean for your snowmobile, dirt bike or PWC?
Most OEM 2 stroke oils fall in either the JASO FB/ISO-L-EGB (Good) or JASO FC/ISO-L-EGC/API TC (Better) category, although the container and the owners manual will never actually list an oil spec. OEM’s prefer just to recommend their private label product and tell you there is no known equivalent. It is easy not to have a “known” equivalent if you do not look for one. Doo is famous for this.
The toughest spec currently obtainable for two stroke oil is JASO FD/ISO-L-EGD. Any oil listing an JASO FD/ISO-L-EGD rating is preferred for a snowmobile, dirt bike or PWC. Common sense should tell you, using an oil (including OEM oil) that does not list a rating usually means it does not obtain these ratings, otherwise why would they not want to list on their product.
The "w" rating for two stroke oil mean for Water cooled i.e. Outboard engines, it has nothing to do with winter.
Sorry Gary.
-NMMA TC-W3 – two cycle water-cooled, third generation. TC-W3 obsoletes TC-W & TC-WII. Oils with this spec do not use metal based additives, and are ashless. This is an outboard specific spec.
-API TC – only API spec established for two cycle engines. It regulates lubricity, detergency, ash content & pre-ignition. Oils with this spec are typically using metal based, ash producing additives.
-JASO FA – original spec established regulating lubricity, detergency, initial torque, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking.
-JASO FB – increased lubricity, detergency, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking requirements over FA.
-JASO FC – lubricity and initial torque requirements same as FB, however far higher detergency, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking requirements over FB.
-JASO FD - same as FC with far higher detergency requirement.
-ISO-L-EGB – same tests and requirements as JASO FB.
-ISO-L-EGC – same tests and slightly higher detergency requirements (piston varnish) as JASO FC.
-ISO-L-EGD – same tests and requirements as JASO FD.
• National Marine Manufacturers Association (NMMA) is based in the USA.
• American Petroleum Institute (API) is based in the USA.
• Japanese Automobile Standards Organization (JASO) is based in Japan.
• International Standards Organization (ISO) is based in Europe.
These specs are established by different governing bodies located in various parts of the world. They all serve the same purpose; to give consumers a quantifiable way to measure the quality of 2 stroke oil.
What does all this mean for your snowmobile, dirt bike or PWC?
Most OEM 2 stroke oils fall in either the JASO FB/ISO-L-EGB (Good) or JASO FC/ISO-L-EGC/API TC (Better) category, although the container and the owners manual will never actually list an oil spec. OEM’s prefer just to recommend their private label product and tell you there is no known equivalent. It is easy not to have a “known” equivalent if you do not look for one. Doo is famous for this.
The toughest spec currently obtainable for two stroke oil is JASO FD/ISO-L-EGD. Any oil listing an JASO FD/ISO-L-EGD rating is preferred for a snowmobile, dirt bike or PWC. Common sense should tell you, using an oil (including OEM oil) that does not list a rating usually means it does not obtain these ratings, otherwise why would they not want to list on their product.
The "w" rating for two stroke oil mean for Water cooled i.e. Outboard engines, it has nothing to do with winter.
Sorry Gary.
Last edited:
marty f
New member
what
i just put yamalube in a glass next to citgo 2cycle oil and they are different in color i thought they come from the same tank of oil i am confused now on wjhat nosboy said!!!i thought if you have used regular yamalube for a few thousand miles its not good to switch to synthetic?
i just put yamalube in a glass next to citgo 2cycle oil and they are different in color i thought they come from the same tank of oil i am confused now on wjhat nosboy said!!!i thought if you have used regular yamalube for a few thousand miles its not good to switch to synthetic?
from what I understand Citgo makes several different versions of 2 stroke oil. Some for Yamaha, Polaris, Citgo's own label ect. I have looked at these three and all are different colors, and kindof feel different viscosity, I cannot confirm this, just an observation. I just ordered 6 gallons of Yamalube, between 3 sleds last year total running over 7,000 miles, did not have to replace a plug in any and only light residue on the body to clean up. We are going to stay with Yamalube.
duheme
Life Member
marty f said:
There is no problem switching from Yamalube to a synthetics like amsoil
YooperMike
New member
Man this was a great read for a tuesday afternoon. I use the yamacrude, as I live in a small town and would get raped on the price of synthetics.
I just say screw it. Run whatever gives you the best results. It's dis for dat, and tit for tat. Joe Blow loves amsoil and has clean internals and swears by his fully synthetic oil. Jonny Joe uses Citgo Sea and Snow and Yamalube 2S and had similar or maybe identical results. Agree to disagree. I cannot belive I read all 16 pages of this only to draw this conclusion: I should just use my best judgement from my personal experience.
BTW- nosboy, very informative reading, but they do make pills to help mellow you out. Or did you get out of your jacket again? (J/K)
BTW- nosboy, very informative reading, but they do make pills to help mellow you out. Or did you get out of your jacket again? (J/K)
tyler440
Member
yeah i think i might be more confused now than i have ever been... i read all 16 pages twice.... ive just been dumping whatever i can find in the tank and i havent had any problems yet... i dont have power valves or any of that stuff... i suppose as long as it slippery it is good.... i think im going to get a gallon of walmart special "super tech" after work unless someone jumps on here and stops me.... is that walmart stuff synthetic?
daman
New member
super tech?????tyler440 said:
no it's not..
I have found the price for Yamalube 2s in gallons has rison. I have been buying mine now in quarts, by the case. Last case of 12 qt. for $62.00. That is $20.66 per gallon.
progold
New member
nosboy have you ever heard of ipone syenthetic i used it in my 02 viper and power valves are pretty clean when ever i check them (twice a season) it`s pretty popular here in atlantic canada plus it also has a sweet scent to it, actualy smeels like strawberries.
IPONE works FINE!!!! KEEP UP the good info!!!!
onewickedr1
Member
here's one for ya. me and buddy went halfsees on case of yamalube W for his jetski and my sled. been running for 1500 miles. wooooooooooooooooo!!!