Straight 60 degree?
supercharged111
Member
60 degrees of preload on the secondary spring.
Peak Seeker
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Looks good, it's also nice to clean any oil, twigs and cat tail fluff out of the belly pan too.
I ordered a few different items.
It seems that 89L weights seem to be the go to for pipes on these sleds, as well as the 14.5mm rollers.
I found a set of weights used for $100, which is a relief as new they're over $120 a piece new
. And I also got a set of new 14.5 mm rollers from the same guy to try out vs my 16.0mm ones, those should be here tomorrow or Monday. I also ordered a new outer cover bushing, as I did notice that mine was a little worn from 4500km and being on and off a dozen or more times, and with some forum delving I found that it can cause some binding when winding out.
I intend to swap the out cover bushing and install the 89L weights first, and I'll also put some marker on the clutches to see where they're both shifting out to before the next test ride.
We were above freezing here for multiple days this week so our snow is more like a glacier, but that just means that it'll be good for top speed runs haha.
I got out last weekend on my new '24 M8000 finally, and managed to bend the tie rod after an unfortunate mishap loading it into my trailer. Sled only has 75km on it...
$26 and 10 minutes to replace that was a nice change though haha.
I ordered a few different items.
It seems that 89L weights seem to be the go to for pipes on these sleds, as well as the 14.5mm rollers.
I found a set of weights used for $100, which is a relief as new they're over $120 a piece new
. And I also got a set of new 14.5 mm rollers from the same guy to try out vs my 16.0mm ones, those should be here tomorrow or Monday. I also ordered a new outer cover bushing, as I did notice that mine was a little worn from 4500km and being on and off a dozen or more times, and with some forum delving I found that it can cause some binding when winding out.I intend to swap the out cover bushing and install the 89L weights first, and I'll also put some marker on the clutches to see where they're both shifting out to before the next test ride.
We were above freezing here for multiple days this week so our snow is more like a glacier, but that just means that it'll be good for top speed runs haha.
I got out last weekend on my new '24 M8000 finally, and managed to bend the tie rod after an unfortunate mishap loading it into my trailer. Sled only has 75km on it...
$26 and 10 minutes to replace that was a nice change though haha.
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supercharged111
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Doh! Well at least you ripped off the bandaid by breaking something. Now you can beat it like it owes you money. I am curious to hear your observations with a roller only change on the Vmax. I got mine back together today, likely will take a spin tomorrow as my new neighbor (we're both building houses a couple lots apart) is heading up tomorrow. He's bringing a late 90s Cat ZL600 and a pogo stick 500 Vmax as a backup. I need coolant, oil, and a trail sticker first.
supercharged111
Member
Well now it hits about 8900 NOW, but climbs to about 9500 if stay in it and look away from the tach. I think I'll start with putting that Bender helix back in as it won't roll as much RPM back into it on the top end. I may need some weight in the tip of these as well. I may also toss the Viper 8EKs in and see how that does.
supercharged111
Member
Hokay so, 49/45 Bender helix back in, no more 9500 but it would still creep over 9000. So I riveted in 1g each at the tips of the 8DN-10, looked up what the Yamaha rivets weigh (2.Xg +), decided that probably wasn't going to cut it but verified first. It really didn't do squat. Sick of driving in and out of town I brought the RX1 helix (in case it reverted to how it acted last season) and red secondary spring (in hopes of lowering the RPM) with me. On my way up to the property the sled started getting nutless, laying down, then popping. Crap, didn't bring plugs with me. Swiped one from the neighbor and gtg again, so swapped in that red spring at 60 degrees and that seems to be the most usable combo yet. There is a point though where it doesn't want to backshift and the motor has to tractor its way through. Once it does it holds 8800-8900 (best as I can tell with the thing bouncing all around on those tiny 98 gauges) as long as I keep the throttle open, went as far as 90 and it was singing along. This combo works similarly (but better) to the last one that worked in warmer weather, I'm beginning to suspect the reason SLP had you with the green spring at 70 degrees on a 45 degree helix was to ensure the motor would backshift sufficiently since it's not a power valve engine. In the meantime I think I need to order more Yamaha rivets so I can drag the RPMs back down via the primary and tighten up that secondary a bit. Sound sane?
supercharged111
Member
Another question, this alignment tool:
Or this one?
www.krausekustomdesign.com
Used one came with a Viper which ought to be the same, right? Looks a lot different than the Krause unit though. Do they all set the center to center distance and offset? How about getting the crank parallel with the jackshaft? Are some better than others at that?
Or this one?
Yamaha SRX/SXR One Piece Clutch Alignment Tool | My Site
Billet aluminum one piece clutch alignment tool. Sets both center to center distance between clutches aswell as the offset for perfect belt alignment and cooler belt temps every time! Proudly designed and made in the U.S.A! Models also available for polaris,skidoo, and arctic cat.
www.krausekustomdesign.com
Used one came with a Viper which ought to be the same, right? Looks a lot different than the Krause unit though. Do they all set the center to center distance and offset? How about getting the crank parallel with the jackshaft? Are some better than others at that?
supercharged111
Member
So. . . went for an actual ride today. Sled still hits 9200 or so WOT with the 8DN-10. If I feather the gas I can keep it under 9000 and it rips as long as I want it to. If I'm doing 70+ the sled won't backshift and it's just stuck there. If I slow down under 60 it'll backshift to 9200+ and rip. So I have to wonder if this isn't where gearing enters the equation? If it's on the pipe it's motoring but at higher speeds once it's off the pipe that's it, no recovering. This must be what it was doing last Spring too too. Losing the single pipe gives up some torque, only way to get it back is to multiply what's there? Could the gearing change I ignored be royally shooting me in the foot here? I wanted to keep as much top end speed as possible, part of going with the pipes was to get into triple digits on the old lie-o-meter on the trail for those long boring railroad grades that are straight forever. I have no idea how fast this thing would go if it were to fully clutch out at 8800 RPM on stock gearing but I do know that the clutches run less efficiently all the way out vs almost all the way out. Before the swap to a 1.25" lug track (every 3rd window closed) the sled would hit 105 on the trail, but I'm unwilling to budge on all the traction it gained me so I figured I'd roll the speed back in with brute force (pipes).
Peak Seeker
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Living in the middle of Saskatchewan means it takes a week for any parts to show up, I'm still waiting on the outer clutch cover bushing to show up at the local Yamaha dealer. The 89L weights and 14.5mm bushings should be at the post office today.
Peak Seeker
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My experience is limited, but seems to me like a bit heavier rivet, and possibly 10 degrees tighter on the secondary is what my next step would be with where you're at now.
supercharged111
Member
Agreed, I need to order a whole mess of rivets though so I can experiment. I was going to use screws and nuts but that combo is 4g each as opposed to 2.Xg each with the steel rivets. The screw is worth a shot I guess but it would concentrate an awful lot of weight in just 1 spot on the arm compared to how Yamaha did it.
Peak Seeker
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Yes, and removing the cover, then the weight and then drilling out the rivet is a tedious process that causes a small amount of wear and tear each time, I find it frustrating to spend the hour doing that just to find nothing changed haha.
It'd be slick to tap the Yamaha weight rivet holes so that a person could just thread different size bolts/washers in like the thundershift or dalton adjustable weights. I'm constantly watching marketplace for a good set of adjustable weights.
supercharged111
Member
I found my 2 leftover rivets, ordered 4 more so those will arrive next week. In the meantime I snapped an aluminum rivet and washer into the inner hole and proceeded to not install it today. Thinking I'll give it a try tomorrow though, not expecting much, but I infer from the SLP setup sheet that the inner hole will respond more than the outer hole. I figure if nothing else I can compare what 1g does to what 2.4g does in that same hole.
supercharged111
Member
It wasn't a big difference, but it seemed tangible on the tach. Took the usual semi-twisty test trail and it seemed to go less past 9000 and was easier to keep at 9000 when feathering. This in single digit temps vs the 20something I last rode in. Hopefully the Yamaha rivets show up Tuesday like they're supposed to. In the meantime I had an epiphany: That 47 degree helix on the shelf will scrub a little more RPM up top than the Bender 49/45 I have in there right now. And it'll probably snap right up to it instead of creeping up to it. I may just put that in at 70 with the current red spring, that's how the SRX ran with these SRX weights. And I really think this secondary is binding. Crazy this wasn't an issue with the single pipe. There was one point where I hit it where it usually messes up, I was doing 70 or so and cracked on it and at first nothing, just a bog, then the sled lurched and the RPMs spiked to where they ought to be. Belt was new last season, clutches cleaned, even hit them with some lube at the beginning of the season. I think I'll try again to press a new bushing into my original secondary. Not getting my hopes up too high here that it'll go in, fit correctly, and not fall back out. Again.
supercharged111
Member
Tossed the 47 on today and wound it up to 70 vs 60 from before. It's about the same, still getting over 9000 if I stay in it. Didn't get hit with the backshifting issue, but it was a pretty quick ride and I was in it more than I was out of it. It's a lot more fun to work my way down to the correct RPM vs up to the correct RPM as long as it doesn't explode. When it's on the pipe it rip, but I know there's a few more bald eagles down around 8900 vs 9200 so I need to get it dialed down some more. I have some rivets coming Thursday and a whole bunch more after that. The sled doesn't seem to be fighting me with these 8DN-10 weights. So at the moment I am:
8DN-10 with approx 1g in the inner and outer holes
47 degree helix, red spring, 70 degree wind
Stock gearing
Stock 14.6mm rollers
Stock WSW spring
Shifting out around 9200 with prolonged WOT operation
Next step is a single 13.3mm rivet in the inner hole, keeping that ~1g in the outer hole, see what happens. If it ends up being a little too much I still have a stiffer primary spring, 2 shims, a green secondary spring, and a 45 degree helix to throw at it. Fingers crossed it gets me real close so I can ride it more.
8DN-10 with approx 1g in the inner and outer holes
47 degree helix, red spring, 70 degree wind
Stock gearing
Stock 14.6mm rollers
Stock WSW spring
Shifting out around 9200 with prolonged WOT operation
Next step is a single 13.3mm rivet in the inner hole, keeping that ~1g in the outer hole, see what happens. If it ends up being a little too much I still have a stiffer primary spring, 2 shims, a green secondary spring, and a 45 degree helix to throw at it. Fingers crossed it gets me real close so I can ride it more.
The Kraus alignment tool is the one I have that I have used on our SXs and the 700 SRX I had....works great.
I agree that you may have a secondary binding issue...I have found peaker triple pipes really magnify a worn secondary shifting issue, especially the backshifting bog.
Also I have found my piped Red Heads always performed better with a multi angle helix...I always like a 53/47 with a green spring @ 70
Once I got the sled close I always fine tuned with different primary spring rates.
Peak Seeker
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Too cold here to ride for the last week being below -30C pretty steady. So just worked on wrapping up a cam install on my truck instead.
I talked to Tim at Thunder Shift products at the end of last week. The 89L weights I bought used showed up without any bushings in them, so I have Tim sending me some bushings, a different secondary spring to try, and a primary clutch clamp that's supposed to allow you to swap weights without pulling the outer cover off.
The forecast for the coming weekend has us around -5C, so I'm hoping to do some testing with the smaller rollers, new outer primary cover bushing and 89L weights then,
I talked to Tim at Thunder Shift products at the end of last week. The 89L weights I bought used showed up without any bushings in them, so I have Tim sending me some bushings, a different secondary spring to try, and a primary clutch clamp that's supposed to allow you to swap weights without pulling the outer cover off.
The forecast for the coming weekend has us around -5C, so I'm hoping to do some testing with the smaller rollers, new outer primary cover bushing and 89L weights then,
supercharged111
Member
I really do think I need to be back on the green spring at 70 degrees like SLP spec'd, I'm betting that is what the sled will want to backshift properly under all conditions. Where are you getting your helixes?
Damn! We were high single digits yesterday, I feel I'm jetted high enough for that with the 148.8s. That was pretty brisk with no snowpants. I absolutely cannot wait until my garage is online, I've been without the last 2 winters but have been fortunate enough to schmooze heated space to work on my stuff. But it's not the same as it being at your own place where you can come and go at your leisure, I always feel a need to get it done quickly and get my junk out of the way at someone else's place which means sometimes things don't quite get done to my liking. It'll be nice to have the option to cam a truck in the dead of winter next year as the house and garage are standing and dried in, just empty at the moment.
I never thought about clamping the primary clutch, that's a good idea. I have some rubber padded squeezy dealies that I use on house stuff that would do the trick here, would even draw the sheaves together evenly. I like the idea of saving the cover threads. We'll be back in the 20s next weekend and that's more the norm for these parts and definitely the temp I want this thing working well in.
Peak Seeker
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Yes a heated garaged is a must around here. I currently still have the green spring at 70 degrees. Thunder Clutching products has different helixes.
After the 20 minute call I had with them, I almost wish I would've just called them from the start for their set up for a piped redhead. If the next week of testing doesn't go well I'm not sure what I'll do next, winter is already half over, so it may just go back to stock for the third time.
I was also told that if you are removing the outer clutch cover, to pull the primary bolt out, and the spring/lock washer often will be the item damaging the outer bushing.