mustangzrule
New member
I never saw any post stating he was teraing throu a town or endangering anyone or that he had a loud obnoxious sled. Let's flame when the facts warrant. Sledders unite and care for each other.alswagg said:
Our enforcement is not cops but DNR in michigan, so they have a little more "rookie testosterone" but nothing out of the ordinary. Just be safe and courteous and all will be fine. We dont nee trails closed or flame wars on TY.
no1chevyboy
New member
wow!!!!!!!!!!!!! i just nope all the anti go fast people are practicing what they preach, and driving the lowest hp sled they can, because there is no need for hp/handleing/clutching, ect. if you drive slow!!!!!, if anything this divide between sport riders and sight seers is what is killing the sport! now the sport rider is driving along sees the slower driver moves out and passes what is the problem, the speed of the pass should not matter, and there aware of there surroundings, now if the slower driver gets scared by this, they have not been aware of there surroundings or they would have known there was a faster driver coming up on them! i really dont see the problem, it just seems like the slow riders think there better and every one should be like them, and then all the trails would be woops up down up down ect that comes from slow drivers in groups pulsing the throttle, slow drivers are very hard on the trail, now fast drivers, drive farther apart and drive more consistant and have far less ware on the trail,and are not here preaching about how there should be a minimum speed and slamming the people that would get that ticket!!!!!!! get off your pedistals and stop whining!!!!!!!! every one should have the choice to ride like they want, not like you want them too! come on down from that pedistal and enjoy the sport!!!!!
mustangzrule said:
THE LAW DOES NOT EXIST IN MICHIGAN. THERE IS NO SPEED LIMIT UNLESS POSTED OR ON A COUNTY ROAD. Yes they will give you a ticket for doin 116MPH in a 35 MPH posted zone and give you a careless driving ticket, take you to jail, and impound your sled. BUT THERE IS NO SET SPEED LIMIT IN MICHIGAN, period unless it is posted or you are on a road!
A Person Shall Not Operate a Snowmobile:
At a rate of speed greater than is reasonable for existing conditions.
http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10365_14824-32293--,00.html
And as for the enforcement in Michigan, it is a combiation of local sheriffs departments as well and the NEW Department of Natural Resouces AND Environment...LOL. it is not strictly DNR as there are Muskegon County, Wexford County, Kalkaska County, Lake County etc. sheriffs running around on brand new Apex's looking for trail permits and registration. I can't comprehend how a state that is so BROKE can afford $11,000 sleds to check registration stickers but I wish I had there job!!
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alswagg said:
Al please stay in Indiana where you can ride 12mph all day on your trail system! Thanks!
Hey BB ,, I think it was the part about if you are worried about your kids then stay home.... Not very courteous and kinda rude, selfish and asinine...
Romig, posted he was ticketed for going 84mph on a snowmobile trail. And he stated he did not care and will do it again, get out of my way. Anyone going this fast on a trail should get a ticket, and a careless driving violation. I do not want to come on upon a driver going this fast against us or anyone else on a snowmobile trail. If you want to travel extremely fast no problem, go on a lake and see what it will do, but the trails are not speedways. Excessive speed kills. Now if he was ticketed for going just over the speed limit, that would have been different, but nearly 30 mph over is excessive. If would come down to a legislative vote for a maximum speed limit of 55 on any snowmobile trail. I would be in favor of it, just as I was in favor of the sound legislation. Al
NYViper17x
New member
This debate will go on until the end of time because we all ride differently but unfortunately we all have to play together. The only aspect of this entire debate that is really important is preventing people from getting hurt or killed. In theory, giving out speeding tickets is supposed to help prevent accidents, but for those of us that ride, we realize how ineffective this strategy is. I have been riding for many years and have never seen people hit head-on going down a straight line whether you’re going 10 or 110 mph. Accidents happen on the corners and this is where it gets interesting – I’ve followed BOTH the fast and slow down trails and you never know who is going to keep to their side. Some fast riders are super precise and obviously in total control – some are not. Some slow riders are all over the place – some are not.
What makes sense is for the law to monitor what’s taking place in the corners. I see a lot of you guys are from up North so you’ll know if the following is true - I’ve been told that in Maine or Canada the law will paint a line down the center line of the trail ON A CORNER. They sit on the exit of the corner, and if you cross the line you get a ticket. If this is true it’s a great idea – If it’s not true it’s what should be done as this would really make a difference. It would force people to focus on being in control where it’s important to be in control. And this would apply to BOTH the fast and the slow.
Finally, and some aren’t going to like this, you’re kidding yourself if you ride fast and think it’s OK to drink - the sleds today are way too fast. Liquid courage makes people do stupid things which results in people getting killed. If all the trails were one way, I wouldn’t care how anyone rides because it’s not my business. The reality is there are people coming the other way and no one has the right to risk someone else’s life.
If there is anyone in law enforcement out there I’d like to hear your thoughts.
What makes sense is for the law to monitor what’s taking place in the corners. I see a lot of you guys are from up North so you’ll know if the following is true - I’ve been told that in Maine or Canada the law will paint a line down the center line of the trail ON A CORNER. They sit on the exit of the corner, and if you cross the line you get a ticket. If this is true it’s a great idea – If it’s not true it’s what should be done as this would really make a difference. It would force people to focus on being in control where it’s important to be in control. And this would apply to BOTH the fast and the slow.
Finally, and some aren’t going to like this, you’re kidding yourself if you ride fast and think it’s OK to drink - the sleds today are way too fast. Liquid courage makes people do stupid things which results in people getting killed. If all the trails were one way, I wouldn’t care how anyone rides because it’s not my business. The reality is there are people coming the other way and no one has the right to risk someone else’s life.
If there is anyone in law enforcement out there I’d like to hear your thoughts.
NYViper17x said:
As per your question. I live in Ontario and have NEVER seen a line drawn on the trails to monitor which side people are on. I've never heard of anything like that.
mustangzrule
New member
There are as many definitions of "safe and prudent" as there are people on the trail. I have exceeded 100 MPH on straight groomed 12 foot wide trails on many occasions. That feeling of your gut dropping out when youe crest a hill or drop off is amazing.alswagg said:
I ride to the right, and slow down when there is oncoming sleds, but each needs to stay within thier riding ability and assume that others on the trail are less experienced and give reasonable caution. It's a sad day when you read about a death on the trails, but it happens and the sport can be dangerous. We accept risks when we do anything in life and the cool people do what is reasonable to not endanger others.
Most of my buddies top out at 70-80 depending on conditions. It's all about safety and fun. There really is no reason to berate other riders unless they make statements like "i don't care"...that means disregard for safety of others, but to limit speed to "boring" just because one rider thinks they know the limits of every other rider is just not right. If it were to come down to a ligislative vote for slow riders to stay in thier back yards I would be in favor of it.
We don't need more laws for Gods sake. It's hard enough to ride when mother nature is against you. Where is the freakin' snow?
I think the best thing you could do is hire an attorney and try the entrapment defense... Going down a hill OR the police radaring you on PRIVATE LAND constitutes entrapment.. You have legal rights and THEY have to follow PROPER PROCEDURES..... ( which 99% of trail cops DONT EVEN KNOW) a few hundred dollar attorney can make the cop and the judge look like a bunch of CLOWNS and they will have NO CHOICE than to drop your case in fear of reprecussions due to their LACK OF professionalism,, to say the least... If they CHASE YOU DOWN and they are going,,,lets say,,, 25-30 MPH FASTER than the "posted" speed limit... they themselves force YOU into a LIFE THREATENING situation (that is ILLEGAL for them to do) if you decide to get "in FEAR for your LIFE" and decide to let them chase after you,,, because you are UNSURE that they are ACTUALLY REAL LAW ENFORCEMENT and not some "IMPERSONATOR",,, you could REALLY work up a CASE against THEM and they will have NO CHOICE but to GIVE YOU your bail/bond money back and HOPE TO GOD that you don't file SUIT against them for a DOZEN infractions... THATS how you BEAT THEM AT THEIR OWN GAME!!!!! I have a FRIEND that is an attorney.. He tells me of attorneys that make a LAUGHING STOCK out of the police CONTINOUSLY!!!! These guys RARELY go by the book.... RARELY!!!!!
If you KNOW your getting a 1200.00 ticket,,, it's BEST to try and beat them at their own game.. If it's a 100.00 ticket,,, pay the 100.00 and MAKE SURE you write a REAL DAMAGING LETTER to the locat chamber of commerce and MAKE SURE everyone from the police department to the aldermen, mayor,,elected officials KNOW that YOU and YOUR DOZEN FRIENDS will NOT be supporting their HORSEsHiT community anymore,,, and MAYBE,,,,just MAYBE ,,, the governing body will look for OTHER things to fine people for!!!! It WORKS HERE in CHICAGO!!!!
REMEMBER,,, the majority of the police are actually DUMB!!!! Thats why they take a job getting SHOT AT for $40.000 dollars a year... I COULD DIG HOLES EVERYDAY and make TWICE as MUCH!!!! Use it to your advantage!!!!
nosboy said:
Amen to that brother. Stick it to em. Beat em at their own game.
JERSEYJOE
Member
Nosboy
OK Gary I agree to an extent. Not all law enforcement types are stupid. I ride with a few of them. They are decent people BUT are pressured to write tickets for registration, insurance, noise, speed. The Tug Hill, NY area is a congested riding area at best. I have been riding there since 1977. Are there some places to do 80-85 safe? YES. This depends on the traffic and time of day . I am not against enforcing realistic laws. I am against posting stupid 25 mph limits on a lot of the conservation trails just to be able to write $135.00 tickets all day for guys doing 45-50. This is done on Tug Hill and yes people are sick of it. Lots of my regulars refuse to ride there. Trouble is the local Chamber of Commerce could care less and even if they did could not stop the cops from writing dozens of $135.00 per violation tickets. Ialso think that getting stopped just to check documents 3 or 4 times a weekend is too much. So far this year I have ridden Tug Hill on 5 weekends and have been stopped to have my documents checked 14 times.
There are no lines in the middle of corners in Quebec either. I have been taking yearly trips there since 1997 and have never have seen that or had any issues.
OK Gary I agree to an extent. Not all law enforcement types are stupid. I ride with a few of them. They are decent people BUT are pressured to write tickets for registration, insurance, noise, speed. The Tug Hill, NY area is a congested riding area at best. I have been riding there since 1977. Are there some places to do 80-85 safe? YES. This depends on the traffic and time of day . I am not against enforcing realistic laws. I am against posting stupid 25 mph limits on a lot of the conservation trails just to be able to write $135.00 tickets all day for guys doing 45-50. This is done on Tug Hill and yes people are sick of it. Lots of my regulars refuse to ride there. Trouble is the local Chamber of Commerce could care less and even if they did could not stop the cops from writing dozens of $135.00 per violation tickets. Ialso think that getting stopped just to check documents 3 or 4 times a weekend is too much. So far this year I have ridden Tug Hill on 5 weekends and have been stopped to have my documents checked 14 times.
There are no lines in the middle of corners in Quebec either. I have been taking yearly trips there since 1997 and have never have seen that or had any issues.
mustangzrule
New member
Tug Hill = off my list of places to go/see.....JERSEYJOE said:
no1chevyboy
New member
ok for fast motion handycaped you want a max limit, that you feel you can handle, i think we should have a min speed limit, that you should be able to handle, you want 55 max then 50 min and your ticket should reflect the same for miles under as miles over!! then we would see how you like being made to do something and paying outrages tickets, and boy the money to be made. the goverment crooks should be all over this!!! i do believe if you could find out the numbers,there are more low speed accidents(clueless people not aware of there surroundings) than high speed. if your so afraid of life,!!! i should start producing bubbles you can place around yourself and sled so you can just float around in your fantasy perfect world were you control everything!!!!!!!! LOL...... CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Youre right... In Chicago,, you need a 4 year college degree to be a police officer thesedays... Although a LOT of the "older" officers got their jobs from the local politician OR their family members,,,,, they Don't even need a highschool education to serve and protect.... ENOUGH PRESSURE to the LOCAL CHAMBER OF COMMERCE will have a NEGATIVE IMPACT on the local politicians,,, because,,, REMEMBER,, the LOCAL POLITICIANS are SUPPORTED and get the MAJORITY of their campaign MONIES from the LOCAL BUSINESSES!!!!! So,,, if the BUSINESSES get PISSED OFF because the POLICE are CHASING AWAY the revenues,,, the POLICE will GO AWAY!!!! The local poiticians will SEE TO IT!!!!! Remember,,, the POLITICIANS tell the POLICE what to do... it's NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND!!!!JERSEYJOE said:
if the ACLU took a HUNDRED snowmobilers and visited the Local chamber.. they would be SHAKING IN THIR BOOTS!!!! Try it sometimes!!! NO ONE wants to SCREW with CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEYS!!!! Not even the POLICE!!!! they run SCARED also!!!!
well i bet you all think iam a cocky spoiled young kid well your wrong i just wish if the cops are going to sit in the bushes along a 5 mile straight trail to nail people then they need to make people aware of the LAW as i said earlier i am from pa and this was the first time there i had no idea there was a limit as there isnt in pa. There isnt one sign along any of the trails in tug hill that state a speed limit. Then ontop of that when i told the cop this was the first time there and had no idea he said well write a note to the judge with your ticket and if he's in a good mood he will let you off that told me it is all about the money. And ALWAGG I am soory you need to bash me this way but my sled is stock most silencers rob power I would rather make my sled handle like its on rails then wake the neighbors
Believe me.. I just had a case against "city hall"... After TWO YEARS of fighting with them ( on a promotion technicality) I FINALLY sought council through my local barganing unit ( IAM local 126 ).. My Business agent and I met with the locals attorney,, and in TEN DAYS ,,, came up with an agreement without going to ANY court!!! The Mayors office DON'T WANT TROUBLE!!!! Chicago has 7 MILLION people... don't you think a little area like TUG HILL would SHAKE in their boots????